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Old 09-02-2005, 08:12 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
How are people not in the streets screaming bloody murder? Your president eats cake, your vice president is sun tanning and your secretary of defense is buying Manolos.

We in the rest of the world just truly do not understand this mentality at all.
Don't worry, it's not just the rest of the world, it's the American people as well.

As for the evacuation quote, I do get upset seeing these people that didn't evacuate when they should have...oh, we'll ride it out even though they told us to leave. But there are people that simply don't have cars, people that don't have money to pay for gas or hotels [and this was before gas got bad]. Do you notice anything about the people in the Superdome convoy? Do you notice how they are all black and poor? Last time I checked that wasn't the stereotypical person voting for Bush.

Too bad his brother isn't governor of LA or they would have gotten help much sooner. Four hurricanes through FLA last year and you never saw this kind of problem. Response was immediate.

The New Orleans mayor said it best: the federal government needs to "get of their asses" and do something.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:13 AM   #82
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For those of you who are not American:
Although we are one big piece of land called the USA. Our country is comprised of "States" making up the larger country. Each state is self governing. They have their own unique set of laws, customs, even evacuation plans or lack there of.
The federal government---George Bush---is now following up on the lack of preparedness on the part of these states to evacuate the folks who did not have the means to get out. (the poor).
This lack of coordination was a problem on a State level.
The responsibility to move people out has now BECOME a Federal problem and thankfully help is getting in to come to the aid of our Gulf Coast brothers and sisters in need!
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:18 AM   #83
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
So now we are going to politicize natural disasters....

Disappointing to say the least.
Dreadsox, I'm curious if you still feel this way given our administration's absolutely ridiculous handling of this...

I don't recall ever being more disappointed in any politician than I have been this week.

This is inexcusable.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:20 AM   #84
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Just watched the press conference......

The General said that the places where the levy broke were NOT ever going to be upgraded even IF the Federal funds had been approved or not slashed.

Have fun politicizing this whole thing....I will be back when there are other assumptions that are being used incorrectly to fit your adjenda.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:21 AM   #85
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Trent Lott will rebuild, better than ever!!

I couldn't stand it...had to run somewhere and lay it down!

Dubya listens to the guys telling of the disaster at the Katrina survey briefing press deal this morning, shakes his head impatiently at the assessments and descriptions, looking at his feet chewing his lip, then starts to speak, presumably without much script for a change and fresh from his break on his acres, and tells us all how....how....

Trent Lott, who lost his house in the storm, *will* rebuild, and he will build a new fabulous house, better than before, and so will be the case for all of New Orleans (will the housing projects get better too, or the rinky-dink places so many other citizens of Louisiana rent and own?)....we will rebuild New Orleans.

It was sooo striking how the real disaster was the loss of the fine mansions, the carefully chosen decor, the grand lawns. Yes, he made some statement about how first off we need to get food and water to people, but the very next thing out of his mouth was this compassion for trent's loss, and the optimism that we will persevere and keep on keeping on with the fine large homes and shopping. Fight the terrorists, keep on shopping! Fight the forces of nature, invest in construction companies and don't forget all the new kitchen counters we'll need to make!

New Orleans itself, city I'd only been to once but found utterly intriguing, so reflects the issues here, vanities and ambitions and struggling to find some meaning under all the surface indulgences. And huge class and race issues of course. To me, Bush's words reflected how for him, the surface indulgences of his cronies *is* the meaning, or at least the first and foremost concern, despite his looking into the face of all that deep despair and loss. But then he really was avoiding eye contact, so maybe he just doesn't see it. I missed the later part of his statements, so maybe he redeemed himself and came up with something beyond the 'expectation of law and order' comments, something that touchs on the souls of those lost, on the human condition generally, something that goes beyond property rights. What a monumental (so many have said this devastation is of biblical proportions, and for a man who allegedly sees himself in such terms, it's sort of scary to see his response today) opportunity he missed to say something healing and inspiring...does anyone think he shed a tear about all this? Or at least felt bad about how apparently crappy the preparations were for a storm that everyone was waiting for?

I want a new president so badly it makes me cringe to hear this man speak...

whew...there...I feel better now!
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:24 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl
For those of you who are not American:
Although we are one big piece of land called the USA. Our country is comprised of "States" making up the larger country. Each state is self governing. They have their own unique set of laws, customs, even evacuation plans or lack there of.
The federal government---George Bush---is now following up on the lack of preparedness on the part of these states to evacuate the folks who did not have the means to get out. (the poor).
This lack of coordination was a problem on a State level.
The responsibility to move people out has now BECOME a Federal problem and thankfully help is getting in to come to the aid of our Gulf Coast brothers and sisters in need!
Are you kidding me? This was a federal issue the moment it was declared a disaster area, and that happened the day the hurricane hit! It has been the federal government's responsibility since then!

And I suggest you read up on the lack of preparedness, because our federal government was involved in terms of how much money was given to build those levees, which couldn't withstand a storm of this magnitude. With all the resources we use in places like Iraq, a little more money to make sure the levees can hold up to a Category 5 storm is not asking that much.

It's like the Titanic. They build a ship that holds a specific amount of people, but don't carry enough rescue boats for them in the event of an emergency. Only here, we build levees to protect New Orleans, but no, let's not make them strong enough to hold up against the strongest storms - let's only go half way.

Pathetic.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:26 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Just watched the press conference......

The General said that the places where the levy broke were NOT ever going to be upgraded even IF the Federal funds had been approved or not slashed.

Have fun politicizing this whole thing....I will be back when there are other assumptions that are being used incorrectly to fit your adjenda.
I usually agree with you on several subjects, but on this, you disappoint me tremendously. That's all I have to say about that.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:28 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


Dreadsox, I'm curious if you still feel this way given our administration's absolutely ridiculous handling of this...

I don't recall ever being more disappointed in any politician than I have been this week.

This is inexcusable.
I never said I was happy with it. But I think the politicization in this thread is beyond people being happy or unhappy.

But, I think there is an ocean of sharks in this thread looking to take advantage of the situation.

My relatives in NO were just bussed out yesterday. My wife's Uncle says he was not aware of how bad the situation was, and he was in Downtown NO.

The comparisons to the other hurricanes are redicluous in my opinion. They are not even close to similar situations with the city being below sea level.

If you can show me a satellite image of any other hurricane that has left the flooding that is in the images I have seen, then we can talk. There is no more devastating storm than we have seen this week.

And give me a break with the Jeb Bush comments.

Seriously, I just spent my week organizing some relief from my Lion's Club, My church, and my school......I do not have patience for this.

I am surprized that people hate him so much that they are making incorrect assumptions as mentioned in my prior post.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:36 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


Are you kidding me? This was a federal issue the moment it was declared a disaster area, and that happened the day the hurricane hit! It has been the federal government's responsibility since then!

And I suggest you read up on the lack of preparedness, because our federal government was involved in terms of how much money was given to build those levees, which couldn't withstand a storm of this magnitude. With all the resources we use in places like Iraq, a little more money to make sure the levees can hold up to a Category 5 storm is not asking that much.

It's like the Titanic. They build a ship that holds a specific amount of people, but don't carry enough rescue boats for them in the event of an emergency. Only here, we build levees to protect New Orleans, but no, let's not make them strong enough to hold up against the strongest storms - let's only go half way.

Pathetic.
I was referring to the State Evacuation Plan. You know the mandatory one that was issued days in advance.
Of course it is in the hands of the feds as soon as it is declared a disaster area. duh!
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:41 AM   #90
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Let's put this in language that people here will understand:

If a terrorist exploded dirty bombs on all of New Orleans' levees and the entire city needed to be evacuated, then what would you all say if people were sitting there four days later? Would we be saying this is a "state issue"? Would we be giving Bush a free pass for the lack of disaster planning? All we've gotten over the last four years is lectures on security this and security that, and four years later, the best we can do is prevent another 9/11. Pathetic.

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Old 09-02-2005, 08:41 AM   #91
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One has to wonder how the absence of a significant amount of the National Guard (away fighting in Iraq) both personnel and vehicles/equipment affected the state and local response.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:42 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


I usually agree with you on several subjects, but on this, you disappoint me tremendously. That's all I have to say about that.
Why, because I have been organizing relief to be delievered...

Or because I just fail to jump on the bandwagon.

Save your disappointment. It has been a long week of worrying and praying here.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:46 AM   #93
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Assuming this actually becomes an official federal issue after it's been declared a disaster area, I think questions about 4 days of either inaction or incompetence are justified.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:46 AM   #94
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Re: Trent Lott will rebuild, better than ever!!

Quote:
Originally posted by ShellBeThere
What a monumental (so many have said this devastation is of biblical proportions, and for a man who allegedly sees himself in such terms, it's sort of scary to see his response today) opportunity he missed to say something healing and inspiring...does anyone think he shed a tear about all this?
Compare Bush's response to that of Tony Blair's during the London bombings, for example. Not that I'm a big fan of Blair but he was so human in his response--he was visibly moved and distressed. Bush just seems like this is a big inconvenience, another annoying event that has rained on his parade (no bad pun intended).
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Have fun politicizing this whole thing....I will be back when there are other assumptions that are being used incorrectly to fit your adjenda.

Unreal. I can safely say that most of us here who are outraged do not have some huge political agenda; we just want to see something done about what has turned into a once "unfathomable" situation happening just a few hundred, or a few thousand, miles from us.

You're telling us we have no right to point the fingers at the so-called leaders of the country? Interesting.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:48 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I never said I was happy with it. But I think the politicization in this thread is beyond people being happy or unhappy.
I don't think it is. People are rightly disgusted that as this disaster is unfolding the President is stopping for photo ops with guitars and birthday cakes, the vice President is on vacation and the Secretary of State is shopping for shoes. People are rightly shocked that it is five days since the hurricane struck and yet there are still tens of thousands of people stuck in a city where conditions are deteriorating by the hour. People have a right to demand an explanation as to why the government has as yet failed to adequately respond to this disaster.

Quote:
Seriously, I just spent my week organizing some relief from my Lion's Club, My church, and my school......I do not have patience for this.
That's great, I applaud anyone who's making an effort to help the people affected by the hurricane and flooding. But why should that prevent people from raising questions about why the governemnt's response has been so inadequate? Why can't people help raise money or send supplies as well as demanding the government put in place an effective plan to help the people affected by these events?
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:52 AM   #97
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There is such a thing as "micro" and "macro" level response. In the "micro" level, aid preparation and assistance is of utmost importance and should transcend politics. Mistakes may have been made, but that's not the concern of the "micro" level.

"Macro" level, on the other hand, is where we ask the questions on the larger picture as to what should have been done, who is responsible, what can be done to prevent this from happening again, etc. This thread is mostly about the "macro" level, and I think is just as important as the "micro" level response. And not all of us are in a position to do anything at the "micro" level, but we should be supportive of those who are making a difference in this level.

Thanks Dreadsox for your relief work. It will be appreciated.

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Old 09-02-2005, 08:52 AM   #98
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I would also like to argue that evaluating the authorities' behaviour with disasters like this is absolutely necessary for either preventing the next one, or improving rescue operations after the next one.
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:56 AM   #99
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In the case of a forecasted Category 5 Hurricane Warning days in advance the "state" definitely bears responsibilty to have a plan.
It issued a mandatory evacuation.
Citizens who could get out on their own means did. That's good cause it's less for the state to have to do.
Those who could not because of econoimcs should have been evacuated to safety before the storm hit.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:12 AM   #100
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Louisiana and many of their neighbors are too poor to be self-sufficient. They often rely on the "wealthier" states, which is equalized through federal funding.

But if you insist on state burden, maybe the South needs to raise their state taxes then. After all, "welfare is bad," right?

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