MERGED: Terri Schiavo, Continued + Terri Schiavo (Died 3/31/2005) - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-30-2005, 11:12 AM   #1
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Terri Schiavo, Continued

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Old 03-30-2005, 12:25 PM   #2
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so, like i said before, i think the main issue is if terri is truly brain-dead. if she is, then let her die. if she his not, it is comparable to starving her to death.

i think we can all agree that if her cortex is still functional, and everything else in her body is working fine that she should remain alive. hey the pope is on a feeding tube right now too, because he is having trouble swallowing, no one is suggesting that he be taken off of it.

if her cortex is non-functional (meaning she is brain dead) then let her die peacefully.

i have seen arguments made from both sides regarding her alleged ct scan. both sides make valid arguments. i think this is the level that this issue should be argued on, and we should stay away from villifying those on either side.

i don't think it helps to resort to calling people names, attacking each others morals and values. i think the polls show that people on both sides would want to die if they were truly brain dead (as many believe terri is), however, i think most people would also want to live if there was a definite chance that they could recover.

until we here conclusively from someone who has performed an exam on terri, and determines the state that her brain is in, this issue will never be black and white. i feel that this whole issue could've been resolved if a fresh exam had been performed recently, and the doctors proclaimed her state one way or the other. .

instead, this will be done after her death. we will either find that she truly was brain dead, and letting her die was the right thing to do. or that she had a chance to recover, because her cortex still remained mostly intact (which has been argued by those more learned than i who studied the alleged ct scan), and it will be too late to give her that chance. it is only a shame that this issue cannot be settled until after her death.
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
so, like i said before, i think the main issue is if terri is truly brain-dead. if she is, then let her die. if she his not, it is comparable to starving her to death.

i think we can all agree that if her cortex is still functional, and everything else in her body is working fine that she should remain alive. hey the pope is on a feeding tube right now too, because he is having trouble swallowing, no one is suggesting that he be taken off of it.

if her cortex is non-functional (meaning she is brain dead) then let her die peacefully.

i have seen arguments made from both sides regarding her alleged ct scan. both sides make valid arguments. i think this is the level that this issue should be argued on, and we should stay away from villifying those on either side.

i don't think it helps to resort to calling people names, attacking each others morals and values. i think the polls show that people on both sides would want to die if they were truly brain dead (as many believe terri is), however, i think most people would also want to live if there was a definite chance that they could recover.

until we here conclusively from someone who has performed an exam on terri, and determines the state that her brain is in, this issue will never be black and white. i feel that this whole issue could've been resolved if a fresh exam had been performed recently, and the doctors proclaimed her state one way or the other. .

instead, this will be done after her death. we will either find that she truly was brain dead, and letting her die was the right thing to do. or that she had a chance to recover, because her cortex still remained mostly intact (which has been argued by those more learned than i who studied the alleged ct scan), and it will be too late to give her that chance. it is only a shame that this issue cannot be settled until after her death.
well said.
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Old 03-30-2005, 01:39 PM   #4
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I'm getting more and more nervous about this case.
And the "let her day" sounds so terrible... I mean, she's been 12 days without any food or drink -- dunno how's possible she's alive.

I just pray she is not suffering...
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Old 03-30-2005, 01:41 PM   #5
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better explain what I meant: I am in part in favour of euthanasia, in certain cases, but I'm not sure this is a case of euthanasia.
I mean, she's been left to die, no one is helping her to pass away.
What do you think?
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Old 03-30-2005, 04:18 PM   #6
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Lady Luck, maybe euthanasia WOULD be kinder. This is not euthanasia, because euthanasia is illegal in the States. That's why the withholding-of-treatment is the route things have gone down.
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Old 03-30-2005, 04:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
so, like i said before, i think the main issue is if terri is truly brain-dead. if she is, then let her die. if she his not, it is comparable to starving her to death.

i think we can all agree that if her cortex is still functional, and everything else in her body is working fine that she should remain alive. hey the pope is on a feeding tube right now too, because he is having trouble swallowing, no one is suggesting that he be taken off of it.

if her cortex is non-functional (meaning she is brain dead) then let her die peacefully.

i have seen arguments made from both sides regarding her alleged ct scan. both sides make valid arguments. i think this is the level that this issue should be argued on, and we should stay away from villifying those on either side.

i don't think it helps to resort to calling people names, attacking each others morals and values. i think the polls show that people on both sides would want to die if they were truly brain dead (as many believe terri is), however, i think most people would also want to live if there was a definite chance that they could recover.

until we here conclusively from someone who has performed an exam on terri, and determines the state that her brain is in, this issue will never be black and white. i feel that this whole issue could've been resolved if a fresh exam had been performed recently, and the doctors proclaimed her state one way or the other. .

instead, this will be done after her death. we will either find that she truly was brain dead, and letting her die was the right thing to do. or that she had a chance to recover, because her cortex still remained mostly intact (which has been argued by those more learned than i who studied the alleged ct scan), and it will be too late to give her that chance. it is only a shame that this issue cannot be settled until after her death.
But I thought, from reading this thread, it was proven fact that her brain was "liquid"?

I also tried to argue the merits of a new look at the facts, a trial de novo if you will, and I still haven't heard a good argument against this.
Remember, one judge, many years ago, decided she was in a persistent vegetative state.

One judge, many years ago, decided that she would have wished to die.

Something is just not right in this case.
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Old 03-30-2005, 04:43 PM   #8
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Why oh why are the Schindlers bothering at this point?

12 days without food or water.

She hasn't urinated since Sunday. You know what that means? That means renal failure. Her kidneys are dead.

She's too far gone at this point, and putting the feeding tube back in now will either completely shock her system into death or it will have little to no effect and kill her anyways. So says one of the Dal Med profs.

So why the hell are they still fighting this in the courts?

Save your money from the legal fees and use it to buy Terri a really nice funeral that celebrates the life she had. It's futile at this point to think she can be saved, as hard as that sounds.
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Old 03-30-2005, 04:53 PM   #9
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Originally posted by DaveC
Why oh why are the Schindlers bothering at this point?

12 days without food or water.

She hasn't urinated since Sunday. You know what that means? That means renal failure. Her kidneys are dead.

She's too far gone at this point, and putting the feeding tube back in now will either completely shock her system into death or it will have little to no effect and kill her anyways. So says one of the Dal Med profs.
indeed. this debate is pretty much over. for better or for worse.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark


One judge, many years ago, decided that she would have wished to die.
And how many doctors and/ or judges have come out and said she's not brain dead?
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:07 PM   #11
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0.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:25 PM   #12
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


And how many doctors and/ or judges have come out and said she's not brain dead?
Only one judge has been allowed to rule on this.

There are doctors that disagree that she's brain dead.

One has to assume one isn't brain dead until proven brain dead.

There are many who don't believe it's been proven.

I don't know all the facts and you don't know all the facts.

What we do know is what one judge, without all the evidence, decided the facts would be.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark


Only one judge has been allowed to rule on this.

There are doctors that disagree that she's brain dead.

One has to assume one isn't brain dead until proven brain dead.

There are many who don't believe it's been proven.

I don't know all the facts and you don't know all the facts.

What we do know is what one judge, without all the evidence, decided the facts would be.
When your cortex is liquid, and your EEG registers no activity whatsoever, you're brain dead.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:53 PM   #14
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How do you know the cortex is liquid? You don't. Someone told you it was.

I'm not familiar with the sensitivity of EEG tests or their ability to detect mimimal activity.

What is your opposition to a new finding of fact?
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Old 03-30-2005, 06:43 PM   #15
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Old 03-30-2005, 06:53 PM   #16
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Nothing like facts to get in the way of religion, eh?

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Old 03-30-2005, 06:58 PM   #17
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i deep.

through all the hysterics, fact will find it's way.

and poor terri ... if she were able to think, what would she think about all this?
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Old 03-30-2005, 07:14 PM   #18
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All I know is....Terri is one strong individual. When she finally departs this earth, and is finally granted peace, she will shine the brighter in Heaven for all her sufferings.

She is like Andersen's Little Mermaid, whose spirit ascended from the foam and kissed both the Prince who had betrayed her and his new bride, which she had hoped to be, and forgave all. The "daughters of the air" are waiting to take her away. (Don't know what I'm talking about? Find a copy of the origional fairy tale, the REAL version, which Disney massacred. You will weep through the last 5 pages.)

A silent, smiling, small army of angels is hovering over the bed and around that hospice, waiting, waiting, to take her and lead her up and away to her Heavenly reward. They will say, Be at peace. Your suffering is over, you are in grace. Let all the murmering cease, let this be your eternal release. And she will ascend, away and above all the the lamentations and the sorrows of this divided Earth, with nothing but a gentle smile for all of us left in this Vale of Tears. She will pass through the Light and the Grey Rain Curtain will be turned back, and she will hear a sweet singing coming over the water. (Tolkien's words, that last, not mine.) And when she stands before the Throne, young and beautiful again, I have no doubt that the Master Himself might even descend and envelop her in His arms. And He will say: "Welcome Home at last. It is not for you to right the wrongs. It is not for you, to fault them. Here is your rest. Be at peace."
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Old 03-30-2005, 07:29 PM   #19
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do you really believe that? literally? thrones and singing and such?

honestly. i'm curious.
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Old 03-30-2005, 08:36 PM   #20
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Hey, I'm Irish. We get carried away at times.

And FYI, in case you're wondering, I'm drinking only iced tea right now.

IF you HAVE to be technical about it!!!

(Yes, I believe He sits on a throne..and the singing is standard, to me, for all souls entering Heaven....b/c that will be the greatest thing about Heaven for me: the beautiful music. And IMO, all kinds of music have beauty in them. It isn't going to be a special song in her honor!!

I can't believe I'm talking about this!! I mean, I was trying to write something beautiful about a poor woman who has been wrongly used as a political pawn, by EVERYBODY. I'm literal in what I hope for her, but geez, if you want a discussion on what Heaven looks like, go to "the Goal Is Soul"...I wasn't going to elaborate!!!!!

(There's a great new book out about this very subject, which I've just finished reading. That's why it;s on my mind I guess. Forgot the author but it's a bestseller, simply called 'Heaven". It has a white cover with a little pic of a Japanse-style bridge over a stream on the cover. If you go to Amazon you'll get pics of book covers and find it that way. It has a lot of surprising stuff to say, and will change your mind. Point number one of the book: Heaven is NOT going to be a boring place where people fly around in white robes and sit on clouds all day playing a harp!!

Interesting even for non-Christians to read, and It's a rare book I'd recommend like that.
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