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Old 12-30-2007, 02:14 PM   #141
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Dec. 23rd interview with Tim Russert:


REP. PAUL: ...I think this country, a movement in the last 100 years, is moving toward fascism. Fascism today, the softer term, because people have different definition of fascism, is corporatism when the military industrial complex runs the show, when the--in the name of security pay--pass the Patriot Act. You don't vote for it, you know, you're not patriotic America. If you don't support the troops and you don't support--if you don't support the war you don't support the troops. It's that kind of antagonism. But we have more corporatism and more abuse of our civil liberties, more loss of our privacy, national ID cards, all this stuff coming has a fascist tone to it. And the country's moving in that direction. That's what I'm thinking about. This was not personalized. I never even used my opponents names if you, if you notice.

MR. RUSSERT: So you think we're close to fascism?

REP. PAUL: I think we're approaching it very close. One--there's one, there's one documentary that's been put out recently that has generated a lot of interest called "Freedom to Fascism." And we're moving in that direction. Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:55 PM   #142
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Originally posted by Infinitum98
And by the way, he did distance himself from the donor. On a television interview when he was asked about this he made it clear that a) he had no idea a Klan member had donated, b) this does not in any way, shape or form mean that the Paul campaign will take any positive stance on the Klan, c) the money will be used for trying to give back liberties to the American people (which is his campaign message), d) he does not know or does not care to know the Klan member.
But those are just words. Saying something is easy. Doing something like giving the money to a civil rights organization, like BVS suggested, is a lot more meaningful than a bunch of empty words that make it look like he wants to have his cake and eat it too (getting a little extra $ for his campaign while trying to avoid the stigma of where that money came from).
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:51 PM   #143
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But those are just words. Saying something is easy. Doing something like giving the money to a civil rights organization, like BVS suggested, is a lot more meaningful than a bunch of empty words that make it look like he wants to have his cake and eat it too (getting a little extra $ for his campaign while trying to avoid the stigma of where that money came from).
Well it was only $500, first of all. So I think it is MUCH easier to donate that $500 out of the $19,000,000 he has raised this quarter to a civil rights organization than it is to defend himself for keeping the money. Ron Paul is merely sticking up for himself and his campaign for keeping the money. I'm sure he knew that if he had just returned the money or donated it somewhere else people would be off his back. And that $500 is really peanuts compared to what he has raised. But I think the point he is trying to make is that it is completely okay for him to spend the money on his campaign which is to become President so he can protect the liberties of Americans and not get involved in foreign wars.

Honestly, if this Klan member had donated to any other campaign and the person running in that campaign actually kept the money and defended himself for doing so I would respect it. This is not just because I support Ron Paul that I think his decision is right to keep it.

There is something seriously wrong with taking money from people as a bribe in exchange for power or other political gains and Ron Paul himself has always been against this. He hates the idea of big business controlling Washington through money. But the difference here is that the Klan member is not controlling one bit anything about the Paul campaign through his donation, and Ron Paul has made that clear.
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:55 AM   #144
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I like some of the things Ron Paul says, like about Iraq and the Patriot Act. But I could never vote for the guy.
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:13 PM   #145
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Ron Paul blimp video

http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id...1099&GT1=10733
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:45 PM   #146
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I don't support Ron Paul but I agree with some of his views on the issues. One thing that I do like about him is that people that would sit out the election and the democratic process are getting active. America needs more active citizens. Happy New Year! Tonight I'm going to a friend of mine that is a Republican and I'm a Democrat. One thing we all have in common is that we love our country.
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:54 PM   #147
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One thing that I do like about him is that people that would sit out the election and the democratic process are getting active. America needs more active citizens.
I agree. Anything that gets people up and participating is good.
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:44 PM   #148
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Fuck FoxNews! Fuck Rupert Murdoch!

Ron Paul was not invited to Sunday night's N.H. debate.

Fuck Fox News!!! Fuck Rupert!!!

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Old 01-04-2008, 05:07 PM   #149
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Fair and balanced my ass...
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Old 01-04-2008, 06:34 PM   #150
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Originally posted by Infinitum98
Fuck FoxNews! Fuck Rupert Murdoch!

Ron Paul was not invited to Sunday night's N.H. debate.

Fuck Fox News!!! Fuck Rupert!!!

But tell us how you really feel.





I have to wonder - is it actually the corporation hosting the event that "invites" the candidates? Shouldn't it be mandatory for all candidates to attend (who are able to)? Or do we not even pretend to play fair anymore when it comes to election(eering)s?
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Old 01-04-2008, 08:22 PM   #151
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Dennis Kucinich just filed a complaint against the FCC because ABC has excluded him and Mike Gravel from ABC debates. This is just ridiculous. Not only in all previous debates do people like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich not get enough speaking time, but as if that wasn't already insane enough, ABC and FOX has the nerves to exclude the candidates all together.

Just ridiculous.
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:21 PM   #152
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You know Kucinich and Gravel make sense at least, as they have virtually no support out in the polls and even less money. You can make an argument that at this point they would be little more than a distraction. I don't agree with excluding them, but it makes more sense with them than with Ron Paul. He has outraised all the other Republican nominees in the last quarter and although he's not polling high nationally, didn't he just pick up some 10-12% over in Iowa, which is a state he wasn't going to do well in anyway. Lame.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:07 PM   #153
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Saw this on another forum...made me keekle...

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Old 01-05-2008, 11:16 AM   #154
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Vote RON PAUL!!!

Good ol' Fox News. Some reporters try to save Fox some face. They have to now for obvious reasons or they come off 100% biased. How can they sell if people know that they are 100% one way?

Even now, Fox News still attempts to say Ron Paul "won't be president". They will keep saying it until the sheep start believing it or the pigs are too distracted to care. It is possible that Ron Paul won't be elected, but it is also possible that 17 out of 18 other candidates won't be elected president either. Ron Paul won't be president if people start believing that he won't be.
Your vote counts and you vote for what you believe in, not for what the media sells to you. Your vote says something and therefore it can not be wasted. Vote for what you think is right, just, and American and its very roots and it will not be wasted.

I had a discussion tonight with some friends and I concluded in my own mind after the subject changed and that one of the major if not the biggest problem in this country is that people would rather talk about something else rather than this fading Republic. On one hand I don't blame them for their lack of apathy because they have become part of the legion of people that think they have to vote for the "lesser of two evils" and they are sick of it so they don't care to vote at all. They would rather talk about the weather, but on the other hand you have people that believe that they have to vote for the "lesser of two evils". So then I ask, Why wouldn't either group think that nothing truly changes in this country while they conform to the system that eats them up!? One group of people perpetuate this illegitimate belief that we can't vote beyond the lesser of two evils, even while some other option is available that is wholeheartedly constitutional and American, while the other group is disgusted and can't vote at all because they don't want to vote for the "lesser of two evils". Where does that put us? It only gives us more of the same and every four years we find ourselves either deciding between the "lesser of two evils" or we don't vote at all. Nothing changes. Nothing changes. Nothing changes. Nothing changes. Hasn't anyone heard of the phrase, "Break out of the Box!"?

Break out of the mold! You obviously do not hold the cast that shaped you to conform to the fences that contain you. Don't stand in one of two lines just to conform to the stockade that loves to taunt you and drive you in.
Break the mold! I sincerely believe that the future Americans envisioned by the founders of this country weren't so easy to taunt and manipulate. Don't take offense. That is just my opinion. Here we are over 200 years after the constitution was drafted and yet, our vision has the eyesight of sheep driven to the slaughter house, or pigs that binge on the trough directly in front of them and kneel to the farmhand whose sole job is to provide us slop.

When will we learn that we the people OWN THE FARM. WE THE PEOPLE force the candidates to conform to OUR constitutional beliefs and not us to their views or the media manipulation or special interest endpoints, endgame, or profit margins?
We need to stop thinking that we have to choose the path of the sheep or the pig or nothing and start believing again that we OWN THE FARM.

I challenge everyone I email to read the Declaration of Independence. Even if you have read it before. Search google "Declaration of Independence" , Sit down and read it, Study why it was written and what drove men without a country to write a document that would raise up men to fight for what would become a republic. Then contemplate, what did they fight to become free and what were they subjected to versus what they gained by risking their own wealth and lives? Then contemplate the constitution that was written that concluded that we should live free to do what we please and enjoy our lives freely and peacefully with one another and without intrusion. It is a short and a rather simple document, but it was the document that established the greatest Republic to ever exist in the history of the world. Then contemplate how far we have back-pedaled against the grain of what they risked their lives for. The free people that wrote that document did not sit down to watch the news at night. They were the news. They did not answer to anyone, just themselves, they did not fight for anyone else's freedom but their own, which paved the way for generation upon generation upon generation to inherit and "keep" what they envisioned for each of us. The founders were brilliant, learned, well read, experience filled and articulate. Yet, our own vision is perceived through a box we sit down in front of night after night after night when all we need to do is refer to the constitution and our declaration to understand what course of action we need to take. The box in front of us with shiny flashing lights and colors is far from perfect. It is not absolute. The words spewing from biased news voices on "the tube" were not drawn from men who risked their lives, their families, their wealth, and their freedom. They are words of men who are a part of system governed by wealth with little risk. I suppose I shouldn't say "little risk". The one "little risk" they take is to stumble upon viewers who choose to turn them off, turn to the words of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and who start to wonder what founded this country. What tyranny and injustice did the founders of this country face that was to such an extent that cornered them to a belief that either they fought for freedom, justice, peace, and prosperity or they fought for nothing, because they may as well not have anything, because they in essence had nothing without freedom?!

It is boggling. It is absolutely mind numbing that we live in an age, when our country has become the very entity that our founders fought against; an empire. a greedy, militaristic, tax craving, war mongering, discriminating empire. I do not speak of the people of this country or even the soldiers that fight for what their country (numbingly) asks, but those farmhands in power who have driven us behind fences. Those farmhands that slop down a handout to keep us satisfied or who draw us into a state of security to only drive us through the stockade as sheep searching for comfort of boundaries and confines that grow ever so tighter until we are lamb chops.
So, I am tired of hearing people say that they don't vote because they refuse to vote for the "lesser of two evils". My simple answer to them is "great! don't vote for the lesser of two evils, simply vote for a person who reflects our constitution and who desires peace, prosperity and freedom for all while he can ARTICULATE to us how that is possible-through our constitution". I am also tired of the people who say, "I can't vote for him because the farmhand only gives me two choices, the slaughterhouse or the slop trough". My answer to them is to accept neither and take back the farm!

In my opinion, it isn't so complicated. Our founders made it easy for us. They wrote a universal and simple Declaration of Independence and then they wrote a simple and yet encompassing Bill of Rights (our original constitution) that is the essence to everything that has provided us freedom, prosperity, and peace (when it hasn't been hijacked from us). It is our willingness to accept the one of two lines or no line at all that has lead us to a road of lameness or bitter end or apathy and it is only our willingness to dust off our founding documents that will allow us to perhaps see that we do in fact own the farm. We own the Title! The Deed! The Estate! We are the overseers and it is the representatives and leaders that we elect that are the workhorses. It is their task to answer to us through our constitution, while we protect our freedom, prosperity, and peace, by living our days free, peaceful, while pursuing whatever makes us happy.

Our country's situation will only get worse if we don't make the right choice. Read the Declaration and Constitution. Things get simple that way and if we're lucky we can peer into the hearts and minds of the founders who were brave enough to defeat an empire that was greedy, militaristic, tax craving, war mongering, and discriminating.
History repeats itself. Will we be on the side of the falling empire, or the side of the people that rose up and fought for peace, freedom, and prosperity for all? (If we follow the examples of our founders we should understand that we do this within our own country and not within the borders of other countries)

Our country is a "baby" in the world. Just over 200 years old is less than a blink of an eye by the standards of written history. We are not infallable, nor do we know what is best for the world. It is obvious that we don't know what is best for ourselves when we are so willing to trade the farm in exchange for stockades and troughs. I have a bit of hope that things will change and the sooner they change, then perhaps we all will be able to brag to our grandchildren or great grandchildren that we were among the many who fought back and restored our republic. Perhaps we can look a grandchild or great grandchild in the eye one day and say that our founders weren't the only ones who had the courage to stand up for what they believed in. Perhaps we can restate in clear terms that "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Freedom isn't guaranteed. It is not an entitlement. It is fought for and then it is fought for eternally.

Will our children inherit a world where they believe that they have the choice of one of two lines or no lines at all? Will we leave them with the options of the trough or the slaughterhouse? Or will we pass on a truth that they inherit this country and all of its freedom, peace, and prosperity?

"Sheep, pig, or the rightful and right filled owner?" That will be my eternal question to those who tell me that they have to vote for the "lesser of two evils" or that they refuse to vote because they believe that can't vote beyond the "lesser of two evils". If they choose between these "options" then, nothing changes, nothing changes, nothing changes, and nothing changes. Glorious will be the day that Americans decide again to elect someone who is not of the cast. Someone who breaks from the mold and gives them hope that they can break from the mold too. Someone that can get the country moving toward a point where grandfathers and grandmothers can say, "I did something that the founders of this country would be proud of, I voted for the constitution of all things, I voted for peace, freedom, and prosperity, I voted for your future, and I voted for my country".
It has a nice ring to it, much better than the news box with flashing lights and colors that spews and sells and numbs us into submission.

Sincerely

JM
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:21 AM   #155
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Plus, he has a blimp.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #156
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I miss the Similar Threads feature.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:29 AM   #157
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I'm Ron Paul, and get off my lawn!
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:31 AM   #158
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I miss the Similar Threads feature.
Who cares when the new "who has friended me?" feature lets me know that Sicy actually secretly loves me.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:07 PM   #159
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Who cares when the new "who has friended me?" feature lets me know that Sicy actually secretly loves me.
Sicy's secret love.
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Old 01-05-2008, 01:36 PM   #160
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I'll say this again, for purposes of clarity.

Ron Paul is precisely an example of how Americans vote on image, rather than substance, not an exception to the rule.

Ron Paul has excellent marketing behind him, so much so that there was a time where I found him interesting too. The details, though, make him far less attractive, and, in fact, make him completely undesirable.

1) The details of his economic policies are unsupported by mainstream economists, and, in fact, are completely reactionary. And I'm not even talking about his interest in reducing spending and cutting taxes. Paul's interest in eliminating the Federal Reserve completely and returning to the gold standard is the most dangerous aspects of his economic policy. However, if he did eliminate the income tax and institute a 20%+ national sales tax, it would have a devastating effect on our economy. Ask Canada and the U.K. about how popular the GST/VAT is. Don't forget, too, that a 20%+ sales tax will be in addition to any state or local sales taxes (ask Canadians about that too).

2) His social stances are, again, rather abhorrent. Treating issues of civil rights as issues of "states' rights" hark back to the days of slave versus free states, and, in the 20th century, states with racial segregation laws. No, I don't think Ron Paul wants to reinstitute either specifically, but when Paul states that the states should be able to determine their own level of civil rights, it is literally no different when 19th century U.S. President John Tyler advocated that a state's "free" or "slave" status should be determined at the state level, with no input from the federal government.

In short, despite the marketing, Paul is not progressive at all. He is probably the most reactionary of all the candidates in this election--Huckabee included. Sure, I am personally quite interested in a candidate who would be serious about cutting spending, balancing budgets, preserving individual freedom, etc., but Paul is most definitely not the right man for this job. His specific stances do not live up to the hype whatsoever.

Here's hoping that a future election can someday find a candidate that takes the spirit of Ron Paul with actual substance behind it.
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