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Old 12-18-2007, 02:14 AM   #21
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Originally posted by anitram


His issues page is total BS. Read the taxes one, how he talks around what he actually wants to do, which is raise the national sales tax to 23% while abolishing income tax completely. Only an insane person would come up with an idea so stupid, but then again it fits in perfectly with the Republican motto of "I got mine, fuck you." It is completely contrary to any rational tax model, since it violates both the concepts of neutrality and equality, but hey he'll find some looney segment of the population to buy into this.

That's just one of his nutbag ideas. I won't even get into lowering the prosecution age to specifically target black male youth (down to 13, btw).
Bullshit. It doesn't say anywhere that he wants to raise the national sales tax to 23%. He wants to abolish the income tax and replace it with NOTHING. Think it is not practical? If there were no income taxes collected in 2006, the Federal Government would have earned the same amount of tax revenues as in the year 2000. So there is nothing crazy about abolishing the income tax. And remember, he IS NOT GOING TO RAISE ANY OTHER TAX.

Secondly, he introduced a proposal to abolish the tax on tips for waiters, etc. I think that shows he is not just in politics to care for the rich.

Do a little research before you go on a rant.
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:59 AM   #22
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Originally posted by coemgen
Although, I must say, the grassroots effort by his supporters is pretty incredible.
It is, but I think it merely furthers the adage that Americans vote on image, not substance.

Ron Paul has a great image, as long as one bothers to not go any deeper than the surface.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:11 AM   #23
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Maybe this is just a mockup, I found it on Google


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Old 12-18-2007, 08:14 AM   #24
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I hope it's the real thing.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Bullshit. It doesn't say anywhere that he wants to raise the national sales tax to 23%. He wants to abolish the income tax and replace it with NOTHING.
From the horse's mouth:

Quote:
4. It has been suggested that the IRS should be eliminated. Do you believe that this makes sense, and if you do, what would you establish in its place?

I have advocated eliminating the IRS for my entire political career. The IRS could be replaced with a flat tax or national sales tax...
Repealing income tax is idiotic. Replacing it with a flat or national sales tax is idiotic and contrary to the Haig-Simons model. Ron Paul seems to have little economic acumen.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Do a little research before you go on a rant.
I always do research.

Ron Paul supports the Fair Tax Bill, which advocates a 23% fair tax (sales tax). It is no secret he's a supporter of this.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Do a little research before you go on a rant.
You may want to do some yourself...
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:22 PM   #28
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Allow me to recycle a point I made earlier here...

Quote:
"Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment “right to privacy.” Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution. There are, however, states’ rights – rights plainly affirmed in the Ninth and Tenth amendments. Under those amendments, the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards." - Ron Paul
Then I asked what Paul would do if a state voted to reinstate racial segregation. Would he support "states' rights" in this instance?

I'm sure some of you think it to be a preposterous question in the first place, but, from a 19th century POV, it certainly was not.

Quote:
[Former President John] Tyler (1841-1845) had long been an advocate of states' rights, believing that the question of a state's "free" or "slave" status ought to be decided at the state level, with no input from federal government.
I hope this underscores the injustice of making minority rights and freedoms subject to the tyranny of the majority.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I always do research.

Ron Paul supports the Fair Tax Bill, which advocates a 23% fair tax (sales tax). It is no secret he's a supporter of this.
Okay, if he had to choose between the fair tax and the income tax, he would pick the fair tax.

But he has said time and time again during his campaign, including just tonight on the Glen Beck show that he wants to replace the income tax with NOTHING. He said that if there was no income tax, the government would be getting the same amount of revenues as 10 years ago and that he would just cut spending.

So, as President, he will do all he can to get rid of the IRS and the income tax. And he will not replace it with anything.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:31 PM   #30
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You may want to do some yourself...
Read above comment.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Okay, if he had to choose between the fair tax and the income tax, he would pick the fair tax.
You honestly think he'll be able to not have to choose? He supports the fair tax bill, he didn't say well if I had to...


Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98

So, as President, he will do all he can to get rid of the IRS and the income tax. And he will not replace it with anything.
I think it's extremely naive for anyone to think he wouldn't replace it with anything.
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:32 AM   #32
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Originally posted by U2democrat
It'll be interesting to see if the crapload of money he's been raising turns into votes.
Yeah.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:09 PM   #33
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These are excerpts from Ron Paul's self-published Ron Paul Political Report - this particular edition is from 1993 (commentary following the Rodney King incidents in LA). Found in its entirety here although there are many supremacist sites that also have copies proudly up.

This is a man you want as president?

Quote:
Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots. Many more are going to have difficultly avoiding the belief that our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin. This conclusion may not be entirely fair, but it is, for many, entirely unavoidable.

Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action.... Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.

Perhaps the L.A. experience should not be surprising. The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics.The looting in L.A. was the welfare state without the voting booth. The elite have sent one message to black America for 30 years: you are entitled to something for nothing. That's what blacks got on the streets of L.A. for three days in April. Only they didn't ask their Congressmen to arrange the transfer.
The best part, of course is while he initially stated that he wrote these comments but they should be looked at in context (of the riots), in 2001 he gave an interview stating that it was really his staffers who wrote them.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:19 PM   #34
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What a good and decent man...
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:27 PM   #35
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Normal

That's frightening
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:34 PM   #36
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While a high % of young black African Americans are indeed involved in some form of criminality, and this is undoubtedly a problem (and it hasn't been solved by decades of welfare, left wingers on this forum should note), the above comments attributed to Ron Paul way back in 1992 are not the way to solve it.

It's instructive to note that Anitram chooses to quote some comments of dubious provenance made 15 years ago rather than turning to Ron Paul's currently active website, where one can find his current position. Some on this forum could learn a lot from the following:

Quote:
[B]"Racism
A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.

The collectivist mindset is at the heart of racism.

Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry. Bigotry at its essence is a problem of the heart, and we cannot change people's hearts by passing more laws and regulations.

It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

In a free society, every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty. "
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:57 PM   #37
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Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.
This is typical white-man speak which completely ignores the realities of life.

It's true Ron Paul said harsher things 14 years ago. However, that in itself would make me not vote for him, because anyone who had such views late into their adulthood should raise some serious eyebrows among thinking people.

If we are going to criticize Romney for flip flopping on abortion and adopting a different stance during his presidential candidacy than he had as a politician in Massachusetts, then we should equally address how politically expedient it is for Ron Paul to now couch things in more pleasant terms.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:53 PM   #38
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It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.
I still see some of his past ignorances in his statement today. Welfare isn't based on race, religion, or gender the fact that he would lump this in their is still very telling.

Quote:
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
Yeah, I'm sure it's easy for a white male to say liberty is the antidote. It's easy to say let's remove all the restrictions and programs trying to level the playing field for someone who's never been turned down or passed over due to the color of his skin, gender, or sexuality.

Let's allow those "problems of the heart" to once again rule this country. Yeah, that's a great idea...
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:41 PM   #39
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I look at the big picture: End to the War in Iraq, Low Taxes, Low Spending.

Ron Paul may have said those kind of quotes, but name one candidate who has not said something considered to be wrong in most people's minds. Or name one candidate who has not misspoken or changed their minds on certain issues, etc.

Everyone has had their faults, it is understandable when people change their positions on issues.

I'm sure Giuliani, Clinton, Romney, Obama, McCain, Huckabee have all had their faults throughout their years. So I look at the opinions of the candidates on the issues that are important to me. Only one candidate has convinced me that he will both lower taxes and end the war in Iraq. And that is Ron Paul.

I'm sure I can go on the net and find things that any of the candidates have said throughout their political careers that they would be considered offensive.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I think it's extremely naive for anyone to think he wouldn't replace it with anything.
I think its perfectly rational to get rid of the income tax and not replace it with anything. Remember, if income taxes weren't collected in 2006, the government would have earned the same amount of revenues as all the tax collections from 2000.

It is completely rational to think that we can live on the budget of 2000.
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