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Old 01-11-2008, 06:25 PM   #321
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You don't think he's more libertarian than conservative?
Nah, I think he's a paleo-lib/'old rightist'. I agree with Melon on this.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:28 PM   #322
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By the way, I do concede that Ron Paul has questions to answer regarding those newsletters sent out in his name.

At this point in time, he has not addressed them satisfactorily and in my own personal opinion this raises serious and valid questions over whether he is fit to be President of a multicultural society like the US.

It's a pity, because I thought he was going to make a big impact.

So at this point in time, if I had a vote which of course I don't, I probably would not vote for Ron Paul.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:34 PM   #323
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He still has him working for him in some way shape or form.
But he isn't creating platform or shaping legislation, he's just a freakin gospel singer.

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Originally posted by financeguy

Show me a racist or homophobe that is currently working - right now - with Ron Paul and playing a prominent part in his campaign, as McClurkin is with Obama's.

Well apparently the guy he allows to write in his book and claim for his own.

He's a little closer associated than a gospel singer on tour with Obama...
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:40 PM   #324
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It still bugs me that that Donnie guy gets the time of day from Obama, much less on tour with him.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:42 PM   #325
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Originally posted by financeguy
By the way, I do concede that Ron Paul has questions to answer regarding those newsletters sent out in his name.

At this point in time, he has not addressed them satisfactorily and in my own personal opinion this raises serious and valid questions over whether he is fit to be President of a multicultural society like the US.

And to be honest this has really been my point all along. He just has too many questionable remarks coming out of his mouth, but not really . And yes in society we do sometimes judge people by a few quotes, but his record has gone beyond just a few quotes. I don't know if he's a bigot or not, from what I've seen I would say, yes, but I don't know for sure. And like you said, this brings up questions as to if he's fit to be the President of the U.S.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:45 PM   #326
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No, I didn't say Paul is okay because there are others discriminating. I'm saying that everyone acts like he is the only one who is discriminatory, yet most of the candidates except Dennis, discrimante. And Hillary has the exact same position as him. And all of the other Republican candidates have much more radically conservative positions on this issue than him.
Actually, it just seems that way when you go into every thread talking about Ron Paul, raving about Ron Paul, commenting on Ron Paul, looking for mentions about Ron Paul, and spinning every other candidates' actions into Ron Paul.

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And about the Civil Rights issue. His position is often misunderstood. His whole point is that we shouldn't classify people in groups and everyone should be looked at as an individual. So he does not support something that says "blacks and whites should be allowed to use the same buses, water fountains, etc."
But then why won't he give civil rights to gays if he's so anti-classification?

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He would instead support something like "all people should be allowed to use these buses, water fountains, etc."
Uh ... I'm having a hard time coming up with a response to this. Uh ... good? I mean that's like saying, "He would support all children going to school." How is that noteworthy?

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Originally posted by Infinitum98
His main goal is that we shouldn't look at people by the color of their skin, by their religion, by their sex, by their race, etc. He has repeatedly said this and I think he is the candidate that most cares about individual liberties and not classifying people by groups. Twist it around any way you want, but he cares about individual liberty more than anything.
Re-stating: But then why won't he give civil rights to gays if he's so anti-classification?
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:46 PM   #327
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And I completely agree with Obama on this. You can't force church's to marry who they don't want to. But whatever it's called; civil union or marriage has to be equal under the law and society. Which I think is probably the most equal of all the stances.

Whereas Paul has actually supported the Defense of Marriage Act, which isn't even close to equality.
Kucinich is the most equal. Obama is second. Hillary and Ron Paul are tied for third. And the rest of the Republicans are fourth.

So Paul isn't as bad as the other ones.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:48 PM   #328
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With
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exception.
I don't think you remember, we talked about this last month. In the eyes of pro-life people, a fetus, especially late term one deserves liberty too. Maybe not in your eyes.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:50 PM   #329
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I'm not Martha, but I'll answer this for myself. While there are still many candidates out there, I will vote for the one I think best supports the issues I find important and the one who I think has the best chance of winning. Out of all the candidates out there, none of the Republicans beat any of the Democratic candidates as far as supporting the issues I find important. At this stage, my vote is not with Hillary.

If it ends up that Hillary is the official nominee, I will still vote for her, because in contrast the number of views I support that she does as well is still a lot more than the Republican candidate. Would I want to vote for someone who perpetuates discrimination. No. But considering the alternative would be far worse, it's a choice I'd have to make.

As far as you trying to make an issue about Obama being discriminatory - under his policy homosexual couples would have all the same rights afforded to them by the government as heterosexual couples receive, but they may or may not be called marriages (and Obama justifies his position quite well with regards to religious denominations). Under Ron Paul's policy, homosexual couples will undoubtedly be denied those rights in some states, hence perpetuating real discrimination. That is a huge difference.
I know its a huge difference, I said it earlier. But it is still discrimination. The only person on either side who is truly fair and equal about the gay marriage issue is Dennis Kucinich.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:58 PM   #330
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Originally posted by financeguy
By the way, I do concede that Ron Paul has questions to answer regarding those newsletters sent out in his name.

At this point in time, he has not addressed them satisfactorily and in my own personal opinion this raises serious and valid questions over whether he is fit to be President of a multicultural society like the US.

It's a pity, because I thought he was going to make a big impact.

So at this point in time, if I had a vote which of course I don't, I probably would not vote for Ron Paul.
Yea Wolf Blitzer questioned him about those newsletters on his show and he had full response, I saw it on a yahoo video, but it had no link so I couldn't post it, if I find it, i'll post it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:00 PM   #331
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Actually, it just seems that way when you go into every thread talking about Ron Paul, raving about Ron Paul, commenting on Ron Paul, looking for mentions about Ron Paul, and spinning every other candidates' actions into Ron Paul.
Well as a Ron Paul fan I feel I have to, especially since the media is so biased against him. I don't spin every other candidate's actions into Ron Paul. I've said positive things about Barack Obama, since I like him. But i'm glad now people realize that he's actually the most liberal out of all the Republicans on the gay rights issue.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:05 PM   #332
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But then why won't he give civil rights to gays if he's so anti-classification?

Well isn't every candidate for equal rights? Yet most of them don't believe gays should have equal marriage rights as straights. As Diemin said before, and I agree with him, I vote for the person that best fits all my issues, there is no candidate that 100% fits my views, and I don't think anybody's candidate of choice is like that. All I can say is that he atleast wants to leave gay marriage issues to the states. Which by the way, marriage issues have been decided by the states historically anyway. At least Ron Paul is not taking steps to "not recognize" gay marriage as McCain, Giuliani, Thompson, and especially Romney (who wants a federal ban on gay marriage) are.

I think if gay marriage was the biggest issue with me, i'd be voting for Dennis Kucinich.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:08 PM   #333
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Uh ... I'm having a hard time coming up with a response to this. Uh ... good? I mean that's like saying, "He would support all children going to school." How is that noteworthy?
For example, he wouldn't give minorities special rights in college applications, he thinks all students should have equal rights. Or he wouldn't have classified hate crimes. Or he wouldn't discriminate against gays serving in the military. I meant to say he looks at individual liberties.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:14 PM   #334
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And to be honest this has really been my point all along. He just has too many questionable remarks coming out of his mouth, but not really . And yes in society we do sometimes judge people by a few quotes, but his record has gone beyond just a few quotes. I don't know if he's a bigot or not, from what I've seen I would say, yes, but I don't know for sure. And like you said, this brings up questions as to if he's fit to be the President of the U.S.
I understand. I am going to try to find this video of him from Wolf Blitzer. And I would agree that it was stupid of him to let those things get into his book without him reviewing it. But honestly, do you really think that any Presidential candidate would want that in their book, even if they are racist? Why would they do such a thing that would definitely hurt their chances in getting elected. Anyway, if I believe that he was really racist, I wouldn't vote for him since his racist can effect me, since i'm a minority. But i'll try to find that video of him.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:04 AM   #335
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I meant to say he looks at individual liberties.
Except for full-grown women. Their liberties are secondary to whatever "liberties" a collection of cells might have.

How can a guy claim to be for "small government" yet think the government has a say in a women's medical decisions? I really can't figure that one out.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:07 AM   #336
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Kucinich is the most equal. Obama is second. Hillary and Ron Paul are tied for third. And the rest of the Republicans are fourth.

So Paul isn't as bad as the other ones.
Well I haven't actually looked deeply into Kucinich's plan, but I know he stands for gay marriage. That's great, but you can't force churches to perform marriages they don't want to...

So here comes all the grey!!!

And honestly so far Obama's is the most equal I've seen.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:12 AM   #337
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I understand. I am going to try to find this video of him from Wolf Blitzer. And I would agree that it was stupid of him to let those things get into his book without him reviewing it. But honestly, do you really think that any Presidential candidate would want that in their book, even if they are racist? Why would they do such a thing that would definitely hurt their chances in getting elected. Anyway, if I believe that he was really racist, I wouldn't vote for him since his racist can effect me, since i'm a minority. But i'll try to find that video of him.
Come on, that's a huge thing... how can you take it so easy?

Many bigots have ran for office, why do you think he's different?
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:28 AM   #338
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Except for full-grown women. Their liberties are secondary to whatever "liberties" a collection of cells might have.

How can a guy claim to be for "small government" yet think the government has a say in a women's medical decisions? I really can't figure that one out.
Do you have short term memory loss? We just had this argument last month. A fetus in late term is not a collection of cells, just in case you didn't know, but you'll probably forget in a month. Secondly, THE LIBERTIES OF A WOMAN ARE NOT SECONDARY SINCE THE LIFE AND HEALTH OF THE WOMAN COME BEFORE THE LIFE OF THE FETUS. SO, SINCE MOST LAWMAKERS AGREE THAT IN A CASE OF THE THREAT TO THE WOMAN'S LIFE, ABORTION SHOULD BE ALLOWED, THE LIFE OF THE FETUS IS SECONDARY.

Third, let me explain this to you: YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THAT A FETUS DESERVES LIBERTY, BUT SOME PEOPLE DO, SUCH AS RON PAUL.

I know you are not going to agree with me, and I won't agree with you. You are asking me why a person believes in liberty for all is pro-life. And I told you why he believes that. You don't believe that a fetus deserves liberty, he does and that is why he is pro-life.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:33 AM   #339
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Well I haven't actually looked deeply into Kucinich's plan, but I know he stands for gay marriage. That's great, but you can't force churches to perform marriages they don't want to...

So here comes all the grey!!!

And honestly so far Obama's is the most equal I've seen.
It is not about forcing a church to perform marriage. It is about legally giving the title of "married" to gay couples. So a church may not perform the marriage, but full equality means that allowing gays to gain the title of "marriage" in the legal sense. Nobody is forcing the church to do anything.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:49 AM   #340
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It is not about forcing a church to perform marriage. It is about legally giving the title of "married" to gay couples. So a church may not perform the marriage, but full equality means that allowing gays to gain the title of "marriage" in the legal sense. Nobody is forcing the church to do anything.
Yeah you didn't look at the whole post did you?
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