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Old 01-08-2008, 10:28 PM   #441
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Originally posted by Anu
I can't see myself voting for Hillary in the general election.
You would go from Obama to a Republican candidate?

Why?
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:28 PM   #442
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Yea I know. If it wasn't for oil we wouldn't be there. But I see something wrong in going to war to protect oil interests. And if anything, we could have gone, fought Iraq in Kuwait, and then came back. We didn't need the base. We really didn't.
Except Gulf War I never really ended. It then became a base for operations to enforce U.N. sanctions against Iraq.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:29 PM   #443
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Originally posted by namkcuR


but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?
Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:29 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


You would go from Obama to a Republican candidate?

Why?
If the Republican is Ron Paul, then that is understandable.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:32 PM   #445
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Originally posted by VintagePunk


Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
I agree. While I think Obama is an excellent speaker and a great motivator, I think Clinton would do a good job also.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:34 PM   #446
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While none of us may understand why she is vilified, the point is she has very high negatives.. That's what scares me going into the general. A lot of people simply don't like her, even if we dont' understand why.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:34 PM   #447
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Originally posted by namkcuR

but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?
I think the perception is there partially because she accepted money from the same big business interests that helped Bush - drug, oil, and health care companies, etc.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:36 PM   #448
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Originally posted by phanan


I agree. While I think Obama is an excellent speaker and a great motivator, I think Clinton would do a good job also.
Exactly. Hypothetically, if she were to win the nom, and as such, became the only Dem option, Dem voters would rally around her, and her spin machine would check polls and public sentiment and mold her into a candidate who would be appealing to independents. It's not certain loss if she gets the nomination. Far from it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:37 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
I have to admit I would LOVE to see all the people who hate her absolutely shitting bricks if she became president.

To me Obama and Clinton are pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy -- their differences are mainly stylistic. Both are too far on the right for me to really like and since I dislike and distrust all politicians on principle, I'm finding it mighty hard to get very excited.

Watching the brickshitting would be fun though....
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:37 PM   #450
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No matter who wins, I'm glad that this is turning out to be a real primary, not that farce of one in 2004.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:38 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
She's being villified because no matter what the Fox News/Limbaugh crowd likes to say. She's not a Left wing liberal.

She's a liberal, yeah but a moderate at that.
FYM, generally speaking, is far too the left of her.

Why Obama is so drastically better, noone has really ever pointed out. Here or elsewhere. I might vote for him still (if it's still an option)

I've been open minded on Obama since the start, I don't see the difference in the two. I think Hillary can win the General Election because she can assemble the team.

A team of political whizzes helped dim-witted at best, Bush win two races against two of the smartest polticians in the Democratic Party.

Long, long ways until the election. I think she has the best chance to win. I think Obama would win as well but he could be made to look unprepared.

Big waves of momentum don't last long. Not 9 or 10 months for fucking sure.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:38 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I have to admit I would LOVE to see all the people who hate her absolutely shitting bricks if she became president.

To me Obama and Clinton are pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy -- their differences are mainly stylistic. Both are too far on the right for me and since I dislike and distrust all politicians on principle, I'm finding it mighty hard to get very excited.

Watching the brickshitting would be fun though....
If Obama is too far right for you...I'm afraid to ask, who exactly is left enough for you?
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:39 PM   #453
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Originally posted by U2democrat
the point is she has very high negatives..
Not according to NH, apparently.


I know when you're heavily invested in something like this, it's easy to over-analyze every sign, ever state, every poll, but really, there's a long time before the election, and so much can swing in that time.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:40 PM   #454
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Originally posted by indra


I have to admit I would LOVE to see all the people who hate her absolutely shitting bricks if she became president.

That may be an appealing possibility if you're not an American, but I for one truly am tired of politics as usual.

If Hilary were to be elected president we would automatically be mired in 4 more years of people hunkered down behind the same battle lines. Its not worth it to me.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:41 PM   #455
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Originally posted by U2democrat
A lot of people simply don't like her, even if we dont' understand why.
There's a hell of alot of people who do like her, and they vote.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:42 PM   #456
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Originally posted by indra


I have to admit I would LOVE to see all the people who hate her absolutely shitting bricks if she became president.

I have some specific ones in mind already!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:44 PM   #457
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Originally posted by indra


To me Obama and Clinton are pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy -- their differences are mainly stylistic.
Exactly, any differences are superficial. It's just in terms of personal style, likability, etc. They're both politicians running for the same party, and once either of them are elected, I think their differences in terms of what either of them could actually accomplish in the real world are negligible. It's not like one gets in and he/she will be a saviour, whereas the other gets in, and the nation will go to shit.

Well, worse shit than your current president sunk it into, I mean.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:44 PM   #458
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I have some specific ones in mind already!!

Yes, yes we know. And they in turn are praying for the day when Jeb Bush takes over the country to piss you off.

Am I the only one who sees how counterproductive this sort of attitude/behavior is?
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:45 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton

That may be an appealing possibility if you're not an American, but I for one truly am tired of politics as usual.

If Hilary were to be elected president we would automatically be mired in 4 more years of people hunkered down behind the same battle lines. Its not worth it to me.
I don't honestly see those battle lines changing no matter who gets elected. Might as well have some fun with the assholes.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:45 PM   #460
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If Obama is too far right for you...I'm afraid to ask, who exactly is left enough for you?
Indra needs to come to Canada.

lol
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