|
Click Here to Login |
Register | Premium Upgrade | Blogs | Gallery | Arcade | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read | Log in |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
![]() |
#141 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 07:15 AM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#142 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:15 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#143 | |
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:15 PM
|
Quote:
![]() That's the argument from reason, anyway. The emotional side of it is something else. It's easy for me as a Jew to shrug off the reality that some people believe that means I'm "going to hell" and don't mind telling me so, because I'm not going to lose my job or my home or the thousand-plus legal benefits protecting my status as support for my family over it...or if for some unexpected reason I did, I'd have the law there to back me up. And legal manifestations aside, I'm not going to get cast out of my family, or be afraid to walk down the street holding my partner's hand, or have to resort to regarding most of the country, much of the media, and a zillion-and-one other local social arenas as no-go zones, should I wish to avoid being constantly marinated in a popular belief that what I am is profoundly shameful, contemptible, and vile. Were those things in fact the case, I'd certainly have a hell of a time convincing myself that there are those who openly endorse various parts of the above, yet somehow "don't mean it in a bad way." I'm not saying this to demonize or stigmatize--I belong to a denomination myself which currently allows its clerics the option of denying the blessings of marriage to their gay and lesbian congregants (though campaigning for such in the civil sphere is technically forbidden them), as part of a transitional phase which I'm confident will end, and while I accept that some would deem me a bigot and a homophobe and deeply in the wrong for not having abandoned said community, in the end I don't accept that reasoning. I do understand it emotionally though, because I'd have to be blind and deaf and utterly incapable of moral imagination not to recognize the anguish and suffering that results from such beliefs and practices being writ large and pervasive across the state, church, and fabric of society. And I can hear it in Michael Glatze's writings as well--the self-contempt, self-loathing, self-dread and shame (a very different and altogether less worthy emotion than guilt, which is the awareness of having wronged others) damningly intertwined with all the "joy" and "liberation" and "relief." I don't suppose whatever it is that's happening to him is straightforward or simple on any account, and were it not for the fact that his testimony will be--and was intended to be--exploited to spread this anguish and moral schizophrenia to others, I'd be content to simply write it off as one individual's contestable experience of what self-"healing" consists of. Nonetheless, the debate will inevitably continue until a political end result emerges, and its aftermath attends to the rest. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#144 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#145 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:15 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#146 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,032
Local Time: 08:15 AM
|
Quote:
surely, religion is a choice, though. but we have laws in place that not only defends the right to choose such a "lifestyle," but actively enables some practicioners of such a "lifestyle" the freedom to express their "lifestyle" prejudices in such a way that it infringes upon the freedom of others, that the freedom of others might actually be viewed as a form of discrimination. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#147 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:15 PM
|
I agree there is more than enough discrimination but the question of their freedom becomes one of speech and property. If it is through public channels (e.g. marraige inequality, lack of government benefits and legal recognition) then it isn't freedom at all, it is state sanctioned bigotry - same goes for supressing support for gay teens etc.. If it is having bigoted counter-protests against a gay parade or not allowing gay kissing in a bar then their freedom of bigotry exists (as a side note there was a case where anti-discrimination law was skirted in victoria to prevent packs of heterosexual of women from going to a particular gay bar, which I agree with).
The thing is that most homophobes are inherently anti-freedom, they may well "disagree with the lifestyle" or "hate the sin" but it doesn't stop there - they have to start using government force against gays. |
![]() |
![]() |
#148 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,032
Local Time: 08:15 AM
|
Quote:
there's a gay club in DC that has a sign out that says something to the effect of, "this is a gay bar run by gay people for gay people and we have the right to refuse anyone for any reason." it's a bit up front, but the intention is to prevent loud, large packs of drunken straight girls, often on bachelorette parties, who treat gay bars like a theme park. one of the ways around this is that they ban anyone from wearing heels with more than 1", which also keeps out the drag queens, and they say it's for safety on the dance floor which is elevated in several places. i think i support this. or do i? not sure. i'm not a fan of self-ghettoization, but then i don't like feeling like i'm an exhibit in a petting zoo. yeah, so, anyway ... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#149 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:15 PM
|
Positive discrimination, like not letting skinheads into a bar.
If the homophobes just self-ghettoised then everything would be sweet. |
![]() |
![]() |
#150 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
![]()
Excellent post yolland.
I think this thread should remain open and that we can discourse civilly among each other. Some people have Judism and being born a certain race confused. Some people claim that being gay isn't a choice while some gay people such as Irvine admit that it can partially be. I interact w many ppl, most are straigtht, a few are gay, I even use to have a transvestite friend who I had coffee w almost every morning before he passed a way suddenly one day. We went to a ball game together and I never judged him for who he was, but I felt he was conflicted inside and he admitted to me he was. He was still my friend however. My point is I don't lay awake at night wondering who is going to Heaven or who isn't. I try and be a good person to all people, and know that we all are not perfect and God knows us better than we know ourselves and will judge us based on the circumstances we found ourselves in, and what we did with those circumstances. I do know for a good portion of my life I was a hedonistic phalander, hurt many many people and know now that lifestyle would be offensible in the sight of God, and after some spiritual experiences, which are too sacred to discuss in a public fourm, I knew it was time for me make a major change in my own lifestyle. And I did make those changes and glad I did. So carry on everybody, but please do civilly. Thanks, dbs |
![]() |
![]() |
#151 | ||
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,032
Local Time: 08:15 AM
|
Quote:
care to explain? i would love to know what i've admitted. Quote:
it's good that you're no longer a slut. i can see how that could hurt people, though i'm at a loss as to who i've harmed by being gay (other than all the broken straight female hearts i've left in my wake). but can one choose to curb the frequency of one's sexual conquests in the same manner in which one can choose which gender one is attracted to? |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#152 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,602
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
Because a certain thing you choose to do, may work for you, does not mean everyones experience is the same as yours and they need to follow your example. I have not had to modify my behavior, or make any major chances in my own lifestyle. I might feel conflicted if I told everyone else how to live. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#153 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#154 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,032
Local Time: 08:15 AM
|
^ honey, you're wildly reading into things.
where is the word "choice" in the above? i have said, repeatedly, and intentionally, that sexual orientation is 100% involuntary. |
![]() |
![]() |
#155 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,602
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
*solely*
that means only, so other things may contribute to genetic are you grasping? the whole tone of the thread has been very disappointing to me But, I knew it was projection. |
![]() |
![]() |
#156 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
Anyway back to the point- When I lived as a hedonist, I felt unhappy and didn't judge anyone nor do I did I tell ppl how to live. I now live a different lifestyle, no longer feel conflicted still do not judge ppl, nor tell ppl how to live. I did however post an artcle about a fellow who changed his lifestyle and his name is Michael Glatze. dbs |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#157 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,677
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
And it went downhill from there. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#158 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,032
Local Time: 08:15 AM
|
Quote:
i agree. Michael Glatze changed his lifestyle. but he did not change his sexual orientation, no matter how much gay shame he confesses. the poor thing. i consider him a victim of Christian abuse. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#159 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,677
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
edited to add: didn't see Irvine's similar post. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#160 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,602
Local Time: 05:15 AM
|
Quote:
or really care that much I do care how I behave and how people are treated I want to leave a better world for your children and for us, while we are here |
|
![]() |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|