MERGED--> Face the facts Hillary + Desperate Clinton Danger to Party - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-08-2008, 01:26 PM   #21
Blue Crack Distributor
 
LarryMullen's POPAngel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AngelofHarlem01
^Why does Obama scare you Carek?
I'm curious as well, Carek. Why does he scare you?
__________________

LarryMullen's POPAngel is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 02:33 PM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by LPU2


Lincoln had about the same experience as Obama. I think experience is one of the most overrated qualities for a President.
Because of the context

this comparison is silly

why not use a contemporary comparison ?

W is very, very low on the experience chart, he is the best comparison

and look at what that got us




and, also during the 2000 campaign he was said to have a "real connection" with American people because of his plain speaking style


Quote:
From Lincoln to Roosevelt to Kennedy to Reagan, more than anything else, all were inspiring figures with great leadership and communication skills.

We have a man running this year with similar skills.
I did post that Obama gave a damn good speech in NC Tuesday evening
I have no problem admitting that Obama is a good speaker and can be inspiring

But on your list, Why do you leave off Bill Clinton?
He certainly belongs on that list.

He killed in just about all of his State of the Union addresses, the GOP would have to stand and applaud

and can you admit that Hillary has those same qualities, also

She is top tier


We do have a woman running this year with similar skills and great understanding of what it would mean to be a President for ALL the people. But I seriously question—in this day of sexist politics—whether Democates have the wisdom to give her a fair shot.
__________________

deep is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 02:52 PM   #23
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,720
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
We do have a woman running this year with similar skills and great understanding of what it would mean to be a President for ALL the people.


what on earth does this mean?
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 03:33 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,739
Local Time: 04:12 PM
All these comparisons don't really work. You can neither compare Obama with Lincoln or Roosevelt, nor with Bush, simply on one or two similarities.

To say Bush is like that, so Obama has to be like that ignores so many differences, it just doesn't work out.
One of the key differences between the both just kills any comparison: Obama is way more intelligent than Bush could ever be.

Additionally, I don't think Obama would be such a marionette Bush is.
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 03:39 PM   #25
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Because of the context

this comparison is silly

why not use a contemporary comparison ?

W is very, very low on the experience chart, he is the best comparison

and look at what that got us




and, also during the 2000 campaign he was said to have a "real connection" with American people because of his plain speaking style




I did post that Obama gave a damn good speech in NC Tuesday evening
I have no problem admitting that Obama is a good speaker and can be inspiring

But on your list, Why do you leave off Bill Clinton?
He certainly belongs on that list.

He killed in just about all of his State of the Union addresses, the GOP would have to stand and applaud

and can you admit that Hillary has those same qualities, also

She is top tier


We do have a woman running this year with similar skills and great understanding of what it would mean to be a President for ALL the people. But I seriously question—in this day of sexist politics—whether Democates have the wisdom to give her a fair shot.
I'm never exactly sure what experience Hillary is meant to have. She a second term junior Senator from New York, who has relatively few legislative success of any substance in her time in the Senate. At best her hands-on experience in the White House of matters of any real substance is patchy...i.e. her self inflicted torpedoing of her health care task force.

And she has run what will probably go down as one of the most tactical inept political campaigns in history; squandering a 100 superdelegate lead, 100% name recognition and a record amount of cash on hand.

Not particularly an Obama fan, but a campaign is often described as a microcosm of how a politician will perform in office, and frankly Hillary has been poor.
popshopper is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:16 PM   #26
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Obama is way more intelligent than Bush could ever be.
I 100% agree with this
Bush' mind in anything but agile.

Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Additionally, I don't think Obama would be such a marionette Bush is.
I do have some concerns here
he got Wright 100% wrong

his "great speech on race" now needs to evaporate, because he wrapped it around Wright and allowed Wright to pull his strings until it became intolerable
deep is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:30 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 09:12 AM
hillary has lost. she won't win.

end of story.

next story, please.
Zoomerang96 is offline  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:47 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,739
Local Time: 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep



I do have some concerns here
he got Wright 100% wrong

his "great speech on race" now needs to evaporate, because he wrapped it around Wright and allowed Wright to pull his strings until it became intolerable
I'm sure the "debacle" with Wright will stick to him for longer, though I hope in the long-run it will not hurt him too much.
But what I meant with marionette is that Obama rather will not be that kind of person that just represents higher business interests and he won't be steered by those or his Vice President. From what I've gathered he is much more capable of pursuing politics that are closer to his heart, which again are closer to what helps the country as a whole. And he seems to be strong enough not to be lead, but to lead himself.
At the moment people often say Bush is not the one who is in power, but it's Cheney and the big interests of the oil companies and the military industrial complex. I don't think people could as easily say that about Obama.
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 02:35 AM   #29
Blue Crack Overdose
Get me off the internetz!
 
Carek1230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: wishing I was somewhere else....
Posts: 125,647
Local Time: 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel


I'm curious as well, Carek. Why does he scare you?
What scares me and is currently preventing me from casting a vote his way is that he just doesn't seem to have the complete "walk the walk talk the talk" in Experience, not as much as I feel Hillary has. Not meaning to start a huge debate here, just my opinions. Obama is a great motivational speaker, don't get me wrong. He can move people and bring them together. He is very intelligent. I just feel he falls short in the experience category. He doesn't have enough political experience under his belt. Maybe I would not feel so scared if I knew who his running mate/VP would be. I just feel the position of the President of the USA requires someone who can do more than talk his/her way through issues & motivate people with great speeches and promising great ideas.

On the flip side I have my reservations about Hillary also. But she's been in the political arena for many more years than Barrack albeit mostly support or back-ground positions, like First Lady. But she's lived in the White House, she's lived in a Governor's mansion as well. And she has her own legal and political career under her belt. Again, I'd like to know who her running mate/VP would be. I think Hillary is very tough and she's got Bill who I think despite his personal embarrassment while in office, by her side is a great asset.

No way will I vote for McCain.

That's my dilemma.
Carek1230 is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:21 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Se7en's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: all around in the dark - everywhere
Posts: 3,531
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
it's been over for a month now... why should that stop her now? she's gonna hang around until either a) obama goes spitzer on us, or b) she does enough damage to obama's campaign that mccain wins, thus setting it up for hill hill to run again in 2012.
ain't that the truth? mccain, guys. get ready for it.
Se7en is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 09:03 AM   #31
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 69,269
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Carek1230


What scares me and is currently preventing me from casting a vote his way is that he just doesn't seem to have the complete "walk the walk talk the talk" in Experience, not as much as I feel Hillary has. Not meaning to start a huge debate here, just my opinions. Obama is a great motivational speaker, don't get me wrong. He can move people and bring them together. He is very intelligent. I just feel he falls short in the experience category. He doesn't have enough political experience under his belt. Maybe I would not feel so scared if I knew who his running mate/VP would be. I just feel the position of the President of the USA requires someone who can do more than talk his/her way through issues & motivate people with great speeches and promising great ideas.

On the flip side I have my reservations about Hillary also. But she's been in the political arena for many more years than Barrack albeit mostly support or back-ground positions, like First Lady. But she's lived in the White House, she's lived in a Governor's mansion as well. And she has her own legal and political career under her belt. Again, I'd like to know who her running mate/VP would be. I think Hillary is very tough and she's got Bill who I think despite his personal embarrassment while in office, by her side is a great asset.

No way will I vote for McCain.

That's my dilemma.
how exactly does being first lady make her more qualified to be president than obama? is the wife of a great veteran pilot more qualified to fly a plane than a guy who's only been flying for a few years? i don't get this whole "she was the first lady, she's qualified" argument.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 09:33 AM   #32
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,142
Local Time: 02:12 PM
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.
U2democrat is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 09:56 AM   #33
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,720
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.



sounds like somebody's been doin' some learnin' while in college.

great post.

Irvine511 is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 12:31 PM   #34
War Child
 
Butterscotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 716
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


how exactly does being first lady make her more qualified to be president than obama? is the wife of a great veteran pilot more qualified to fly a plane than a guy who's only been flying for a few years? i don't get this whole "she was the first lady, she's qualified" argument.
Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired? She's no more qualified than Obama.
Butterscotch is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 12:51 PM   #35
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2Fanatic4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: nowhere..........man
Posts: 20,254
Local Time: 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired? She's no more qualified than Obama.

thank you.. People just don't seem to get that... As was mentioned being a first lady does not count as years in your political career. Yes, they do some work (she has when she was first lady) but not on the scale of the President or even a politician IMO.

also good post Laura! well said and well researched, the girl knows her stuff thats why she is going to skool to be edaumacated...
U2Fanatic4ever is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 02:04 PM   #36
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,054
Local Time: 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired?
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 04:28 PM   #37
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,743
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.
Very well said.

I always find the lack of experience argument a little suspect. It's not like he'll hold the position in isolation, he'll have a whole host of aides and advisors. All presidents depend heavily on their inner circle like this, regardless of how much experience they have.

As well, it's pretty clear that he's intelligent and capable of reasoned, nuanced thinking. That's more than can be said for your current president.


Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems

Exactly. I don't know how people can deny that Hillary didn't learn a thing or two as First Lady. Short of actually holding the position yourself or being in the inner circle of a sitting president, I can't imagine a better way of gaining the knowledge and perspective that she must have gotten through the experience. This holds especially true for someone like her, who had/has political aspirations of her own.
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:08 PM   #38
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,455
Local Time: 09:12 AM
Desperate Clinton is Danger to the Party

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...danger_to.html
Harry Vest is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:06 PM   #39
War Child
 
Butterscotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 716
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems
So, shall Laura Bush run next time? Barbara Bush?
Butterscotch is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:15 PM   #40
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,455
Local Time: 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


So, shall Laura Bush run next time? Barbara Bush?
EXACTLY!!!
__________________

Harry Vest is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×