MERGED--> Discussion on Bush nominating Condi for Sec. of State

[U2Kitten]

My response was to the behavior you described, which I find infantile and rather racist in its own right.

Naturally, what else would you say? BTW, personal attacks don't go over very well here pal!I just told the other guy I don't think he's racist or sexist, it's just about the situation! Read my posts before you make broad and unfair generalizations about me!

I also agree Condi is a brilliant woman who is perfect for the job! But it is also hilarious there is nothing liberals can say about her without stepping in their own 'inclusiveness'

BTW it sure is weird to have 'newbies' jump right in acting just like old members. I got busted with my alters here, it happens!

 

[sharky]

I also agree Condi is a brilliant woman who is perfect for the job! But it is also hilarious there is nothing liberals can say about her without stepping in their own 'inclusiveness'

Why is this hilarious? I don't get it. So what if she's black? I support the fact that she probably received a college scholarship because she was black. I think it's fine if she was as qualified as a white man to hire her for a position. But SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED FOR THIS JOB! She and the president IGNORED a memo that was titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE THE U.S." If she wasn't so chummy with the president, she would have been fired for that. Any NSA head would have been fired for that. She does not have any idea how to fulfill the duties of Secretary of State and there are definitely people out there more qualified than her for that position.

Bill Richardson -- former U.S. ambassador to the UN and governor
John Danforth -- present ambassador to the UN

We have seen what Condi does to countries that don't agree with her. I fear for the rest of the world with her as Sec. of State. She is not even close to being a good diplomat when it comes to foreign countries. Not even close.

 

[strannix]

Naturally, what else would you say? BTW, personal attacks don't go over very well here pal!I just told the other guy I don't think he's racist or sexist, it's just about the situation! Read my posts before you make broad and unfair generalizations about me!

I also agree Condi is a brilliant woman who is perfect for the job! But it is also hilarious there is nothing liberals can say about her without stepping in their own 'inclusiveness'

BTW it sure is weird to have 'newbies' jump right in acting just like old members. I got busted with my alters here, it happens!

I'm not making a personal attack. I'm merely stating that I thought the behaviour you described sounded racist to me. There is a difference between calling you racist and calling something you wrote racist.

And so it is, by the standard that none other than nbcrusader has given us: "Reckless accusations of racism are racist as well". Let's be honest, when you talk about painting people as "non-PC" and "backing opposition up against the wall", what do you really mean? Let's stop pretending that you're talking about anything other than labeling her detractors as racist themselves.

 

[nbcrusader]

I'm not making a personal attack. I'm merely stating that I thought the behaviour you described sounded racist to me. There is a difference between calling you racist and calling something you wrote racist.

I doubt anyone takes comfort in this nuance.

 

[strannix]

I doubt anyone takes comfort in this nuance.

Well, they should. It's a big difference.

If you lock yourself out of your house, that's a pretty stupid thing to do. It does not, however, mean that you are a stupid person. Same principle at work here.

 

[nbcrusader]

You realize that the implication of racism carries far more weight than the stupid/act/stupid person distinction.

You make a rational distinction, but the discussion of racism is not always conducted rationally.

 

[strannix]

You realize that the implication of racism carries far more weight than the stupid/act/stupid person distinction.

You make a rational distinction, but the discussion of racism is not always conducted rationally.

Well, it's up to us to act rationally then. It can be done.

 

[AvsGirl41]

Why is it that because I don't approve of Gonzales getting Attorney General and Rice getting Sec. of State that I'm automatically a racist? We should not be putting people into those jobs because of the color of their skin. These are the most important people in this country and they should be judged solely on their qualifications. Under normal circumstances, Condi would have been fired at this point for the following reasons:

-- name of CIA agent possibly leaked from her office in violation of Treason Act
-- put knowingly false information into the state of the union address [yellowcake anyone? they knew it was wrong and put it in there anyway]
-- "I believe the name of the report was 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike the U.S.' " Again, as has been mentioned, 3000 people died because she didn't heed the warnings of the previous administration and her OWN intelligence agencies.

If she weren't so cosy with the president, she would have been fired at this point.

Agreed...

Her academic qualifications are hyped, but I was severely underwhelmed when she testified before the 9/11 Commission. Granted, she was under fire, but she should have been prepared for that. Instead, she came off like an idiot.

I'm sure she's very smart, but there is a certain aspect in high school, college, etc., of learning "to play the game." I've been (kindly) accused of it myself in college. Often, I get better grades than people who are far smarter than me. Thus, academic honors are not always a sign of brilliance. Understand, I'm not downplaying her achievements by any means, or suggesting she isn't extremely intelligent. But her academic record and her work record are two very different things, and should be seen as such.

White, black, male, female--someone with those mistakes on their record is a poor choice for Secretary of State.

 

[Norse]

I did not vote for President Bush. I don’t very much like or agree with President Bush. Just a warning.

What Bush has to understand is that 49% of the country (CNN) is not on his side. He really is not helping the matter by elevating all of these neo-conservatives in to his cabinet. Hell half of these folks scare some conservative Republicans I know.

Not the Right step when half the country is not wild about you to begin with. I don’t blame Bush for carrying out the Agenda he promised, but I blame him when he goes even farther then that. This is a scary day.

 

[diamond]

well she's no madeline albright.

 

[sharky]

what are you saying diamond? Madeline Albright was better than Condi? I can agree with that.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I doubt anyone takes comfort in this nuance.

And yet apparently people feel free to hide behind the claim that it's the "homosexual lifestyle" they dislike, rather than individual gay people. How strange that we can criticise an individual's actions without criticising the individual in that context, but not in this one.

I've never found much comfort in that nuance either.

 

[Scarletwine]

I think it is a horrible choice. But totally on point for this admin.
Bush wants loyalty over competence or appropriatnance.

Condi may well be highly intelligent but she has already staked out a disasterous path in foreign affairs. She stated on TV (in not exact quotes but I can find them) that Germancy and France be damned but Russia should be forgiven for opposing the Iraq war.

Every failed Executive wants only yes men. Successful ones want ideas.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

She stated on TV (in not exact quotes but I can find them) that Germancy and France be damned but Russia should be forgiven for opposing the Iraq war.

Yeah, I remember that, it was "Ignore Germany, forgive Russia, punish France."

I think Powell leaving/being pushed was inevitable, but a real, real shame. It says a lot about the Administration. Reality, facts etc be damned. Bringing a range of ideas to the table be damned. Disagree and you're out. Many of the articles I've read on the changeover suggest that there'll be a wholesale clearing out of any moderate voices in the State Dept from top to bottom.

One column I was reading in the newspaper today, the author wrote that he had always said that if Colin Powell ever resigns or is given the boot, consider it the global equivalent of a huge hurricane warning. Rough times ahead.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Reckless accusations of racism are racist as well

The poster had a valid point: racism exists on both sides, white and black. We all know it exists among whites, but I find it racist when a black man runs as a republican, and he's mocked with Oreos by both black and white democrats. (An "Oreo" is a terribly derogatory term to describe a black man who is perceived as "black on the outside, but white on the inside.")

Here's an example: http://www.frankenlies.com/frankenoreo.htm

 

[STING2]

Yeah, I remember that, it was "Ignore Germany, forgive Russia, punish France."

I think Powell leaving/being pushed was inevitable, but a real, real shame. It says a lot about the Administration. Reality, facts etc be damned. Bringing a range of ideas to the table be damned. Disagree and you're out. Many of the articles I've read on the changeover suggest that there'll be a wholesale clearing out of any moderate voices in the State Dept from top to bottom.

One column I was reading in the newspaper today, the author wrote that he had always said that if Colin Powell ever resigns or is given the boot, consider it the global equivalent of a huge hurricane warning. Rough times ahead.

When Colin Powell origionally signed on, he indicated that it would only be for one term. Colin Powell has worked with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Wolfowitz and others for years prior to this administration in various capacities. Powell new their views on things and new he would be working with them in this administration and did not hesitate to do so. Powell has never been this "moderate dove" that the media describe him as.

It was Powell's views on how to approach Iraq that won out over Cheney's. Cheney did not want to go back to the UN and felt the prior resolutions were enough to justify war. Powell felt everything should be done to get as much support as possible and that a new resolution would help. Powell got over 3 dozen countries and a new resolution to authorize military action against Saddam if Saddam failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD.

Powell from begining to end has guided the Presidents policy and this idea that Powell was this handcuffed Democrat/Bush loyalist is rubbish.

Can you name a single Secretary of State that has ever served two full Presidential Terms?

 

[pax]

Just one thing about racism/sexism and Republicans/Democrats really quickly...

I personally think it would be very insulting to Dr. Rice if I, as a liberal, said, "Well, I don't really like her policies, but I'll support her because she's a black woman." I suspect she would rather be judged on her actions and achievements, rather than her sex and skin color--as I think we all, conservative and liberal alike, would. I know not a whole lot about her personally, but from what I have read, this is what I think she would believe.

Thus, while I admire her smarts and determination and hope she excels in her new job (assuming her appointment is confirmed), I won't turn cartwheels just because she is a black woman.

I think that all came out all right, yes?

 

[diamond]

what are you saying diamond? Madeline Albright was better than Condi? I can agree with that.

given my choices of team A:

OR
Team B:

I will opt for Team B any day of the week.

db9

 

[verte76]

I agree, pax, it'd be terribly insulting to Condi if we simply supported her for this post because she's black and/or female. She would like to be judged on what she does, not circumstances of her birth that are beyond her control.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Pax is right. However, I feel that she is given a bad rap by her own people who are almost completely liberal just because she has conservative views. Society as a whole finds it unusual to see a black republican, period. I wish we could advance that, and yes, accept people the way they are. You're right, you should agree with someone's policies/beliefs in order to support them. Should you not?

 

[BVS]

However, I feel that she is given a bad rap by her own people

No offense but I've noticed you've said this twice already and I'm a little confused. What do you mean by this, "her own people"?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

No offense but I've noticed you've said this twice already and I'm a little confused. What do you mean by this, "her own people"?

The vast majority of the black community - 89% liberal - does not like Condi Rice. However, I'd like to move on and discuss the content of her character rather than her race.

 

[BVS]

However, I'd like to move on and discuss the content of her character rather than her race.

As would I, this issue was not brought up by me. I'm just suggesting that maybe in the future you might want to stay away from such comments. I mean would you refer to "Bush's own people" as all whites? I highly doubt it.

 

[nbcrusader]

The vast majority of the black community - 89% liberal - does not like Condi Rice. However, I'd like to move on and discuss the content of her character rather than her race.

For what its worth, it should have probably been stated this way. Non-descriptive phrases like "her people" "them" etc. can be misinterpreted and historically have a negative connotation.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

For what its worth, it should have probably been stated this way. Non-descriptive phrases like "her people" "them" etc. can be misinterpreted and historically have a negative connotation.

Sorry for not being specific enough. I will try to do better in the future.

 

[diamond]

there,
i told
you
GW
was
a sexy
mofo

db9

 

[Flying FuManchu]

LOL at that pic...

 

[pax]

Well, I must say, she is quite charming. Quite the cellist as well.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Considering she's 50, she's got some looks

 

[pax]

Her Olive Oyl hairdo could use an update, though.