Merged: Anti-war protesters are going too far + should be kept quiet

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As I said in another thread, I guess being in America changes things for anti-war protestors what with the security et al. But the question of muffling yourself because it's futile... well, it's too bad some people feel this way. Personally, I agree with the phrase I've seen on pickets, "if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention". The rallies here so far have not gotten out of hand; the only instance was when McDonald's closed down during the rally with people shouting "shame!" at it. (Silly.)

foray
 
yes, people are outraged now, nevermind the last decade, it doesnt matter what Saddam has done, is currently doing, or could do...

Saddam is unaccountable; it's easier to be critical of the US because most of US leaders actually care about perception and consequences of their actions
 
Pro-war people have not paid any attention to Sadaam's atrocities except when the U.S. is engaging Iraq in war. I thought WMD's were what we were after, anyway -- or is it just whatever issue seems most convenient at the time?
 
actually the UN needs to take responsibility for allowing Saddam to break the resolutions of the Gulf War Treaty and expel UN Inspectors; true, Clinton did very little to address this issue while the UN Security Councel did nothing and member nations of the UN virtually ignored the situation

kind of hard to pin all of this on the johnny-come-lately pro-war people, when anti-war people ignored the situation as well
 
im just curious as to when israel is gonna have to face up to un resolutions, laws, farts, milkshakes, etc.
 
I agree Wanderer, virtually everybody has ignored Sadaam's crimes against humanity. But let's face it, much of the discussion by pro-war people about Sadaam's atrocities ends up with the same refrain: "Why aren't the 'peace' protesters protesting Sadaam's brutality?"

The question I pose is as follows: If pro-war people are so concerned about Sadaam's treatment of his people, why haven't they (pro-war folks) been marching in the streets for years in protest of Sadaam? If pro-war folks have such deep convictions with respect to Sadaam's crimes against humanity, why haven't they made a stink about it until the last several months when the U.S. was gearing up for war with Iraq?
 
Its all very neat to say that the anti-war coalition ignored Saddam's crimes. I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly did not. This war should have been fought a long time ago, but now there are other complications.

Should something be done about Saddam? Yes.
Is it a reason to go to war? No.

Its not as simple as that, but I simply can not agree with this 'pre-emptive strike' rhetoric. A country should go to war when its own security is directly being threatened by the other; I still have yet to see any rhetoric to see how Saddam Hussein is a direct threat to the United States or the United Kingdom.

NORTH KOREA is another matter altogether. Now, THAT is a country that should be stopped before it is too late. Instead of this stalling, the 'coalition of the willing' should place their efforts there. The more we stall, the more pernicious it shall be for us in the future. The threat is there, not in Iraq.

It is not out of some pacifist nature that I object to this war, I object to it because it is wholly unecessary. Iraq is NOT a threat as long as Saddam Hussein knows that doing anything will get him killed. Well, I speak of this in the present tense, this rhetoric is now quite redundant at this present moment in time.

Who, may I ask, will stop North Korea? What I find distressing about this entire situation is that the real threat, the real danger, is being ignored. What, precisely, is being done about North Korea? Not half of what should be done, I can tell you.

The 'only' reason I can see, the only credible and positive reason for this war to be fought, is for the 'liberation' of the Iraqi people. How can I deny the benefits there? I do not. However, when placing it in the 'war equation', it is not as simple as that - it does not balance. We have lived perfectly well through humanitarian crisis after humanitarian crisis, what is going on in Africa comes to mind immediately (I know how Bono is particularly frustrated about that), and, more often than not, we have not seen it as a reason to do anything, let alone go for war.

Ant.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually, Anthony and I are the same person.

Actually, everybody in this forum is the same person, namely me.

Actually, I did post a response to pub crawler's last question. I have no idea how the message, but not the handle, were replaced by Anthony's posting.
 
This is extremely strange... and I do not know how this happened.

I am Anthony, though... and hopefully, speedracer is... er... speedracer.

I say, can someone please help us out here? I saw 'Being John Malkovich' the other day and this is starting to creep me out.
:ohmy:

Ant.
 
speedracer said:
Its all very neat to say that the anti-war coalition ignored Saddam's crimes. I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly did not. This war should have been fought a long time ago, but now there are other complications.

Should something be done about Saddam? Yes.
Is it a reason to go to war? No.

Its not as simple as that, but I simply can not agree with this 'pre-emptive strike' rhetoric. A country should go to war when its own security is directly being threatened by the other; I still have yet to see any rhetoric to see how Saddam Hussein is a direct threat to the United States or the United Kingdom.

NORTH KOREA is another matter altogether. Now, THAT is a country that should be stopped before it is too late. Instead of this stalling, the 'coalition of the willing' should place their efforts there. The more we stall, the more pernicious it shall be for us in the future. The threat is there, not in Iraq.

It is not out of some pacifist nature that I object to this war, I object to it because it is wholly unecessary. Iraq is NOT a threat as long as Saddam Hussein knows that doing anything will get him killed. Well, I speak of this in the present tense, this rhetoric is now quite redundant at this present moment in time.

Who, may I ask, will stop North Korea? What I find distressing about this entire situation is that the real threat, the real danger, is being ignored. What, precisely, is being done about North Korea? Not half of what should be done, I can tell you.

The 'only' reason I can see, the only credible and positive reason for this war to be fought, is for the 'liberation' of the Iraqi people. How can I deny the benefits there? I do not. However, when placing it in the 'war equation', it is not as simple as that - it does not balance. We have lived perfectly well through humanitarian crisis after humanitarian crisis, what is going on in Africa comes to mind immediately (I know how Bono is particularly frustrated about that), and, more often than not, we have not seen it as a reason to do anything, let alone go for war.

Ant.

It's always fascinating how two people can look at the same data and come to completely different conclusions.

I support the war on Iraq precisely because I think we can "win" this war ("win" meaning deposing Saddam with a minimum of casualties all around and lay the foundation for democracy). The Allies really have been bending over backwards to make sure that innocent bystanders are not harmed.

I don't think we should attack North Korea (at least right now) because I think there's a significant possibility that if we strike now, Seoul and Tokyo are going to turn into smoking holes in the ground. The only things we can do right now are (1) gather lots more intelligence about North Korea's nuclear weapons programs and try to take them all out in one strike sometime in the future, or (2) hunker down for a protracted campaign of containment.
 
i would like to thank anthony and speedracer for giving me a little laugh in the middle of all this craziness...

:D
 
Screaming Flower said:
i would like to thank anthony and speedracer for giving me a little laugh in the middle of all this craziness...

:D

I aim to please.

I really should get to work now. I'll return with another batch of insane neo-conservative rants and raves.
 
I think people have the right to chant for the thousands of inncoent American and Iraqi lives that will be negatively affected by this war...
I don't support Saddam... He gased my people and have tortured them for many years... However, I believe if we wanted to get rid of his regime (and WMD)... there should be a more strategic and wise way of going about this, instead of bombing a whole city...
This war is a bad example for other countries... Peace needs to start from somewhere... This is not going to start peace... this is going to create more social conflict....
Assumption is what really creates the mess.
I'm soo mentally exhausted and frightnened that i can't say anymore.

There is way to much hypocricy in this world....

Peace out
amna

If only we had more honest and wise men like Nelson Mandela...
 
martha said:
Um, the protesters still have a Constitutional right to protest.

And those of you who are somehow hoping for a war without death...keep hoping. War is about death.
Martha
Sure you have your free speech rights please do not impede our safety in the mean time:)

As far as ppl dying, less Iraqi ppl will die w our efforts to liberate Iraq than under the Saddam's rule, where he has slaughtered 3-5 % of his country's population thru his own genocide.

Thank you very much.:)
Please
Keep
Hope
Alive

WHOS
YOUR
DADDY:angry:

DB9
 
fewer people is a LARGE understatement diamond.

And Martha - for those of you hoping for Iraqi people to live without fear of death (and torture and rape, etc...) - keep hoping, Saddam is about death.
 
womanfish said:

And Martha - for those of you hoping for Iraqi people to live without fear of death (and torture and rape, etc...) - keep hoping, Saddam is about death.

Um, where in my post do I even mention this guy? I was talking about those here who keep hoping for a war without deaths.
 
while i agree we have the right, protesting against the war when its already happening is just a waste of time.

i support my troops, and I pray for their safety.
 
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