Mel Gibson To Produce Holocaust Miniseries

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/06/a...int&adxnnlx=1133913433-qs8DH0QreCUVey4MPzHxnw

"Mr. Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, has repeatedly denied that the Holocaust happened, saying before the release of "Passion of the Christ," for example, that accounts of the Holocaust were mostly "fiction" and asserting that there were more Jews in Europe after World War II than before. Mel Gibson has declined to disassociate himself clearly from his father's views, according to Rafael Medoff, director of the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies in Melrose Park, Pa., and the author of an annual study of Holocaust denial.

"For him to be associated with this movie is cause for concern," Mr. Medoff said. "He needs to come clean that he repudiates Holocaust denial, and that he understands the Holocaust was not just another atrocity that occurred in World War II along with other atrocities."

Reached at his home in West Virginia today, Hutton Gibson declined to discuss his views on the Holocaust. As to his son's project, he said, "I have no idea what he's doing, and frankly, it's none of my business."

........... "Reached at her home in Newport Beach, Ms. Van Beek, who said she was in her early 80's, said she had not seen Mr. Gibson's last movie because it seemed "too traumatic."

"I don't know him, all I know is he's a staunch Catholic, and the people who saved our lives are Catholic," she said. "I respect everybody's beliefs."

"I know his father doesn't believe in the Holocaust - but maybe when there's money involved, maybe they don't care," she added. "His father will probably say this is not real, this is a novel."

 

[Liesje]

Reached at his home in West Virgin...explanation for his stupid father's behavior?

 

[nbcrusader]

Mel Gibson has declined to disassociate himself clearly from his father's views, according to Rafael Medoff

Actually, Gibson has. But for the sake of controversy, it is always easy to say "he didn't do enough".

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

He has? When? I don't recall him doing that when Passion Of The Christ was released.

 

[nbcrusader]

They are hanging their hats on Mel Gibson's statements that he would not get into a public argument with his father.

 

[Irvine511]

They are hanging their hats on Mel Gibson's statements that he would not get into a public argument with his father.

no -- Gibson said that his father has never told him a lie.

that's where the issue is.

what do i actually think? i don't really care. i think Gibson is a decent actor, a very good director, who's completely bat-shit insane and has some sort of fetish for graphic violence for the sake of graphic violence. lots of beautiful men getting tortured by other men, often with their faces covered ... hmmmm ...

i shudder to think of all the 8 year olds who have been traumatized by the gore of "the passion" who were dragged to that movie by their parents.

 

[Zootomic]

... i think Gibson is a decent actor, a very good director, who's completely bat-shit insane...

Heh! Thank you for that. I was going to post something along these lines although not quite that blunt. I think Mel Gibson is kind of a wacko who happens to be a movie star which has allowed him the means to thrust his views upon the public. The success of Last Temptation has only encouraged him to continue with the Holocaust as his next target. I hate to think how graphic he will manage to make this film.

 

[yolland]

If the film is really based on the life of Flory van Beek, as the article says, I doubt it will be all that graphic, since she spent the war in hiding in Rotterdam, and was never in a camp. I think it will probably be a good movie.

My guess is that if there were any potentially dubious motives involved in Gibson's company taking on this story, it has to do with the Catholic interest angle. Mel does have a bit of a thing about a Jewish plot to smear Catholics with bad PR over the Holocaust.

Because modern secular Judaism wants to blame the Holocaust on the Catholic Church. And it's a lie. And it's revisionism. And they've been working on that one for a while.

---Mel Gibson in The New Yorker, Sept 15 2003

He was also dumb enough to tell the same reporter, with reference to Frank Rich who wrote a column accusing Passion of anti-Semitic overtones, that "I want his intestines on a stick...I want to kill his dog." So, I am inclined to agree that Mel has a few screws loose somewhere.

However, it's not clear that Gibson himself had much involvement in this decision, nor that he will have much involvement in the final product. And I for one am always in favor of more occasions to honor those who risked their own lives to save Jews from the Nazis. Hasidei Ummot ha-Olam

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Hasidei Ummot ha-Olam

Please pardon my ignorance, can you tell me what that means? I assume it's Hebrew. It is beautiful and I was just curious.

I love reading your posts yolland, they are always so articulate and reasonable. You are also unfailingly polite around here.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Is that the "righteous gentiles"?

 

[yolland]

^ That's right; more literally "the righteous (Hasidei) of the nations (Ummot)of the world (ha-Olam)." This is a phrase and concept invoked repeatedly in the Talmud, most famously in one of the few passages explicitly endorsing belief in an afterlife: "And the righteous of all the nations of the world shall have a share in the world to come."

Of course, the concept has nothing intrinsic to do with helping out Jews; there are many ways to be "righteous." But since the Holocaust--and in particular, since the state of Israel's decision to commemorate non-Jews who saved Jews from the Nazis in its national Holocaust memorial--the phrase has come to have special meaning with reference to these particular non-Jews. There is a lovely garden and monument dedicated to them at the memorial in Jerusalem, where more than 20,000 "righteous gentiles" have either a tree or a plaque (they ran out of space for trees!) in commemoration of their names.

On Yom ha-Shoah, Holocaust Remembrance Day, many synagogues, including my own, light candles in honor of Hasidei Ummot ha-Olam.


Thanks for the praise, MrsS--there really needs to be a nonsexual "blushing" smilie...

 

[nbcrusader]

I think we've got more than Mel Gibson to worry about....

Iran's president questions Holocaust

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

"Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true, our question for the Europeans is: is the killing of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support to the occupiers of Jerusalem?" he said.

 

[Irvine511]

I think we've got more than Mel Gibson to worry about....

agreed.

it's amazing how the Iraq debacle has emboldened Iran's nutjobs.

 

[ouizy]

Yes - the Iranian President is one scary motherfucker.

But you know, Benjamin Netanyahu has stated that Israel should consider a preemptive strike agains Iran as it soon will have nuclear capabilities.

So who is right?

The world is a scary place.

I think if there were no media, none of this would be happening.


As for Mel Gibson, I can name a large number of gentiles that I would rather see prduce a film about the holocaust.

 

[deep]

Pakistan is anti-Israel and they have nukes

There are many former Soviet - stan countries with anti-Israel leanings that have nuke abilities.

Sharon and Perez move to reach a Palestinian settlement will do much more than any strike on Iran for Israeli security.

The U S has spent 300 billion? on Iraq.

If we had spent 30 billion on Palestine, building up their infrastructure and schools, hospitals and economy the U. S. and Israel would be at much, much less risk of terror.

There can be an economic/ trade inter-dependence with Israel/ U. S. / Palestinian State that will serve all parties better than what we have been doing. Piling bodies on top of more bodies.

and btw, mel gibson is a messianic nut job/ with anti-Semitic leanings.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Hmm, somehow I don't think this miniseries will be happening now

Should Hollywood shun Mel Gibson? Should the public shun him and boycott his movies? How many chances should one get when it starts to become clear that one is an anti-Semite? (For me it is clear, and my doubts about him have been confirmed). Is anything really more important in Hollywood than money?

by Ari Emanuel, huffingtonpost.com

"I wish Mel Gibson well in dealing with his alcoholism, but alcoholism does not excuse racism and anti-Semitism. It is one thing when marginal figures with no credibility make anti-Semitic statements. It is a completely different thing when a figure of Mel Gibson's stature does so. Even when he sobers up and apologizes.

According to the handwritten report of the deputy who pulled Gibson over, published by TMZ.com, after he was arrested Gibson launched into an anti-Semitic tirade, saying: "Fucking Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." Gibson then asked the deputy, "Are you a Jew?"

At a time of escalating tensions in the world, the entertainment industry cannot idly stand by and allow Mel Gibson to get away with such tragically inflammatory statements. When The Passion of the Christ came out, Gibson was quoted as categorically denying any anti-Semitism attributed to him: "For me, it goes against the tenets of my faith, to be racist in any form. To be anti-Semitic is a sin. It's been condemned by one Papal Council after another. There's encyclicals on it, which is, you know -- to be anti-Semitic is to be unchristian, and I'm not."

Now we know the truth. And no amount of publicist-approved contrition can paper it over. People in the entertainment community, whether Jew or gentile, need to demonstrate that they understand how much is at stake in this by professionally shunning Mel Gibson and refusing to work with him, even if it means a sacrifice to their bottom line.

There are times in history when standing up against bigotry and racism is more important than money. "

 

[80sU2isBest]

I think Gibson is a decent actor, a very good director, who's completely bat-shit insane and has some sort of fetish for graphic violence for the sake of graphic violence. lots of beautiful men getting tortured by other men, often with their faces covered ... hmmmm ...

i shudder to think of all the 8 year olds who have been traumatized by the gore of "the passion" who were dragged to that movie by their parents.

I have to admit that I think Gibson is a little nutty. However, I strongly disagree that The Passion was a result fo Gibson having a fetish for violence. I believe him 100% when he said he wanted to show what Christ went through for the world's sake.

As for 8 year olds being dragged to see The Passion, I would agree that 8 years old should not see the movie. They are not old enough to understand it in its proper context. However, I don't think dragging 8 year olds to see the movie was a common practice at all. I think most parents have more common sense than that.

 

[BonosSaint]

Hmm, somehow I don't think this miniseries will be happening now

Should Hollywood shun Mel Gibson? Should the public shun him and boycott his movies? How many chances should one get when it starts to become clear that one is an anti-Semite? (For me it is clear, and my doubts about him have been confirmed). Is anything really more important in Hollywood than money?
"

I'm not sure whether anybody's personally held views should disqualify him or her from creating movies. I don't think anybody should be blacklisted for personal views.

That being said, it's up to the studios if they want to distribute
(or to him if he intends to distribute indepedently) and up to the moviegoers if they want to boycott. I could say I boycotted Woody Allen movies if I'd actually gone to one in the several years before the scandal broke.

But I don't think this is the guy who should be doing a Holocaust miniseries. Like Mrs. S. said though, I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon.

 

[anitram]

When Passion came out, many people immediately said it was anti-Semitic. I saw it with my Mom and found it so obviously offensive in parts. Why should it be suddenly a surprise that this guy holds these views? If you only want to see what you want to see, you'll never see beyond that.

This miniseries is probably dead in the water, as his overall career should be as well.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Im sure that he can do a Gary Busey and star in a sequal to Kurtlar vadisi - Irak

 

[Justin24]

I did not find Passion to be Anti-Semitic. there were Jews and Gentiles in the crowd asking for the death of Christ. Yes he portrayed Pontious Pilot wrong. When you are on drugs(alchohal included) you say and do anything. If you don't like his films don't watch it.

 

[A_Wanderer]

No, you loose the inhibitions and you say what your thinking before realising that it was a dumb thing to say; his attitudes may have been more or less latent in the past, this only confirms them beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Irvine511]

No, you loose the inhibitions and you say what your thinking before realising that it was a dumb thing to say; his attitudes may have been more or less latent in the past, this only confirms them beyond a shadow of a doubt.

my understanding is that while he was legally drunk -- he blew a .12 and the limit is a .08 -- that is not drunk enough for someone to be speaking in tongues.

there have been many, many stories of how foul-mouthed and bigoted Gibson is. Christopher Hitchens wrote:

[q]This may seem like an oblique way in which to approach Mel Gibson's ghastly movie The Passion. But it came back to me this week that an associate of his had once told me, in lacerating detail, that an evening with Mel was one long fiesta of boring but graphic jokes about anal sex. I've since had that confirmed by other sources. And, long before he emerged as the spear-carrier for the sort of Catholicism once preached by Gen. Franco and the persecutors of Dreyfus, Mel Gibson attained a brief notoriety for his loud and crude attacks on gays. Now he's become the proud producer of a movie that relies for its effect almost entirely on sadomasochistic male narcissism.

http://www.slate.com/id/2096323/

[/q]

so, i'm not so sure how latent it is. at least, as you noted, it is finally confirmed.

but not to worry, Mel fans. a mea culpa on Larry King, a trip to Promises in Malibu for alcoholism, and "Apocalypto" will open to big box office moolah.

 

[verte76]

My mother told me about the alcohol/anti-Semitic tirade. I'm honestly not shocked. I knew Gibson is a Catholic who rejects Vatican II. They're called "Traditionalists" because they want the Tridentine mass back. This isn't just about wanting a Latin mass. This is rejecting all of the changes made by Vatican II. One thing they did at Vatican II was draft a paper admitting that the Church had played a part in anti-Semitism and condemned anti-Semitism, saying it had no place in the Church. I was on a Catholic discussion board with some annoying Traditionalists. One of them made a blatantly anti-Semitic remark in a post. Before we knew it Jews were on our board wanting to know what the hell was going on. We went to the Jewish discussion board where they were from and disavowed anti-Semitism. We pointed out that the Vatican has recognized the state of Israel and we all personally said we had no tolerance of anti-Semitism. We got the job done. I have no patience with the Traditionalists, Gibson is one, therefore I have no use for Gibson.

 

[80sU2isBest]

When Passion came out, many people immediately said it was anti-Semitic. I saw it with my Mom and found it so obviously offensive in parts. Why should it be suddenly a surprise that this guy holds these views? If you only want to see what you want to see, you'll never see beyond that.

What parts were offensive to you?

 

[Irvine511]

What parts were offensive to you?

there was a really interesting thread a few months ago: http://forum.interference.com/t159458.html

i know you didn't ask me, but i found the anti-Semtic iconography and the pornographic violence to be offensive. it was more like a horror movie than anything else.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I never saw The Passion, I don't need Mel Gibson or anyone else to show me Jesus beaten to a bloody pulp for two plus hours in order to know what Jesus and his sacrifice means to me. I know of his suffering, I don't need it depicted on screen in order to know that. But far more offensive to me is the thought that he used that movie as a vehicle in which to display his anti-Semitic thoughts and ideas. That goes against everything that I believe Jesus stands for and everything I believe in and stand for. I am certainly even more glad now that I never saw it.

 

[verte76]

I never saw "The Passion" either. I didn't need two hours of blood and machismo to understand the message of Christ. I get that from my church, my art and Scripture.

 

[anitram]

anti-Semtic iconography

That's what bothered me about it too.

It's a bit like if you go to Venice, and you see some of those Murano glass figurines of rabbis. One thing is to have one rowing a gondola but then you see one with a hooked nose that's holding a bag of money and grinning like a maniac and it's just inappropriate, IMO. Yes, the Jews of Venice were moneylenders hundreds of years ago, and yes, the stereotypical appearance probably does resemble the majority of European's Ashkenazi Jews, but it left me uneasy somehow to think I'd be bringing Shylock home with me. That's what Gibson's portrayal of the Jews in the movie reminded me of.

 

[INDY500]

I say let Mel Gibson make his film, then let CleanFilms edit out the anti-Semitism and bat-sh*t insanity so the rest of us can enjoy it.