Lilac
The Fly
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2004
- Messages
- 231
I'd rather have McCain than either of those two sickening bozos.
McCain Speaks Out Against Michael Moore
- Thread starter Headache in a Suitcase
- Start date
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verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Yes, conventions are basically great big expensive parties with no purpose. At one point in time they did have a purpose. That's where the candidates were nominated and picked their running mates. As late as 1976 Jimmy Carter didn't pick Walter Mondale as his running mate until the DNC. This year we knew the people who were getting the nominations were, and their running mates, and the whole damn thing is just for show and political advantage. Of course the pollsters and pundits go into overdrive for these things. But they are just show biz.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Lilac said:
We could have better candidates. I'll agree with you there. Probably if our campaign season weren't so long and expensive we'd have better candidates. Right now our system is really working against us.
pax
ONE love, blood, life
You're not fooling anyone, "Lilac."
BostonAnne said:
McCain accurately explained why the choices that Bush has made the past four years have been the right ones and have been successful. It is for that reason that Bush should be re-elected as president.
Has anyone given a speech or said something not in a speech that would make you want to re-elect George Bush?
BostonAnne
Refugee
No Sting2, how Bush handled Sept 11 and Iraq are not my deciding factors.
If it were my deciding factor, I don't agree with all of his decisions anyhow and McCains speech didn't inspire me to think differently.
If it were my deciding factor, I don't agree with all of his decisions anyhow and McCains speech didn't inspire me to think differently.
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Leeloo
War Child
He's got Pete Townshend on his side.
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enggirl
Acrobat
While I like McCain and, even tho I'm a democrat, was interested in him 4+ years ago b/c he sounded like a logical, rational grown-up (such a concept in today's political climate), I've lost respect for him these past months. Back when McCain was running for the ticket, Bush & his buddies pulled some dirty BS on him...yet he lets himself be put on a commercial hugging the man! They used dirty tricks to call him into question, and he is still towing the dogmatic party line instead of saying "Hey--what the hell?" I thought he could think for himself, but he's in danger of coming across as one of "them" lock, stock & barrell.
Oh, and the best thing Moore could do is laugh it all off. Pulling an O'Reilley and yelling "Shut up! Just shut up!" would just make him look a fool. I read what Moore had to say in today's USA Today opinion piece and I think it was great. Compare it to Coulter (who was fired after turning in her first opinion piece on the DNC) and you can get an idea of how the parties seem to split. Too often the Reps (their "mouthpieces" for the most part) come across as a bit on the nutty side--name calling, etc. When Republicans try to act compassionate and moderate, it rings false (to me, anyway).
OK, I've gotten off topic. Sorry.
Oh, and the best thing Moore could do is laugh it all off. Pulling an O'Reilley and yelling "Shut up! Just shut up!" would just make him look a fool. I read what Moore had to say in today's USA Today opinion piece and I think it was great. Compare it to Coulter (who was fired after turning in her first opinion piece on the DNC) and you can get an idea of how the parties seem to split. Too often the Reps (their "mouthpieces" for the most part) come across as a bit on the nutty side--name calling, etc. When Republicans try to act compassionate and moderate, it rings false (to me, anyway).
OK, I've gotten off topic. Sorry.
zoney!
ONE love, blood, life
Leeloo said:
Now THAT is an endorsement!
Any other politician's want a guy with "pictures" found on his computer to support them?
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enggirl said:
I'm not sure if your aware of this, but John McCain returned to Vietnam and shook hands with the men who beat him for years. He certainly does not agree with them on anything, but he did forgive them.
McCain has never been a mouthpiece for anyone. He has ALWAYS BEEN A REPUBLICAN. Look at how he has voted in the past. Even in the primaries in 2000, the difference between Bush and McCain on many issues was small.
McCain does not tow anyones line. The North Vietnames who beat him for years tried unsuccessfully to get him to sign a document saying that he and other US Military personal had committed war crimes. McCain refused despite the increased beating. He knew the facts and was not about to sign on to a lie no matter how much they beat him. At around the same time in 1971, John Kerry went before Congress and essentially did what the North Vietnamese were unable to beat John McCain into doing.
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
Ahem, remember your Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", the problem with politics is that too many people here hate those whose politics they disagree with, that goes for both Bush and Kerry bashers - they posess a psycopathical hatred that is totally illogical. Introduce some respect for others opinions and take enjoyment from the argument, it will lead to better discourse in your daily life and on the forum.
BostonAnne
Refugee
STING2 said:
What's your point STING2? The answer is no, but that doesn't mean that I don't try to have an open mind anyhow.
Salome
you are what you is
wouldn't that be considered flip-flopping?STING2 said:
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
A_Wanderer said:
Hey, from one Voltaire fan to another--I agree 100%!! I don't like all of this hatred and vitriol. That's the thing I hate the most about election year. There seems to be more of this
this year than there has been in recent campaign. Some article claimed that this is the most "charged" election since 1968. Yikes. That's scary.A_Wanderer said:
Was this directed at me? Because defamation of family goes beyond politics, and I would never defend someone's "right" to defame my wife and child. That goes beyond any perceived "hatred" of either candidate.
And I hope you weren't calling me a psychopath.
BostonAnne said:
I would say that there was probably very little McCain could have said or done in his speech to convince you to vote for Bush. I'm sure you have an open mind, but I think most political strategist would consider you to far to the left to convince otherwise. The Convention and the speeches are designed to fire up the base and appeal to the independents and other voters in the middle. I admit, I'm not in the middle, an undecided, or an indendent in regards to this election. The only democratic candidate I would have even considered voting for was Joe Lieberman based on his views on the issues.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
When I complain about the rancor and vitriol in this campaign I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm talking about the whole thing, both sides. There's too much 
going on all over. This is a political election, not the Wars of the Roses. It's really depressing to me. 
going on all over. This is a political election, not the Wars of the Roses. It's really depressing to me.
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
No psycopath comment was in relation to those that hate without reason, they take it too far - choice of words was quite poor as I was actually thinking of pathological hatred.
cydewaze
Refugee
Apparenly John McCain couldn't disagree with you more.STING2 said:
"Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Not our political opponents. And certainly not, certainly not, a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace, when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children inside their walls."
--John McCain
Of course John never saw the movie, and of course Moore never claimed that Iraq was an "oasis of peace". Yes, I know it's just a tiny untruth, but still...
On a side note, I wonder how John was able to forgive Bush for the vicious personal attacks Bush used against him in the 2000 primaries.
Flying FuManchu
New Yorker
I believe McCain actually believes Iraq was a "graver" threat. Is that the untruth? I got thrown off with the quote.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2001
- Messages
- 16,690
Salome said:
cydewaze said:
I saw Moore's movie the day it came out and I doubt anyone has ever put out a more inaccurate piece of dung. McCain could not have been more right and does not need to see the whole movie to come to that conclusion. My friends serving in Iraq who saw a bootleg copy of the movie feel even more strongly than I do about Moore's little film.
Sorry, but this is not an example of a "partial truth" by McCain.
McCain being forced to publicly hug Bush is proof enough to me that he's engaging in partial truths. It seems clear to me that McCain isn't so much pushing for Bush to be re-elected as he is pushing for the current administration to be reelected (ie, the people actually running the administration).
Diemen said:
Where is your evidence that McCain has been forced to hug anyone. I remind you this was a man that spent over 5 years at the "Hanoi Hilton". The staff at the "Hanoi Hilton" were unable to force him to do anything including signing a document making the same claims of war crimes that John Kerry did for free back in the United States at about the same time.
Oh come on. The staff at the Hanoi Hilton weren't members of his own party who were currently in office and had all the power. He also wasn't a career politician at the time and didn't have to worry about compromising his beliefs to gain some political ground.
Do you really think that McCain likes Bush? After the incredibly harsh smear campaign he was subjected to in 2000? A smear campaign that Bush never (publicly) apologized for, despite a direct and public request from McCain?
Anyway, here we go with the hugs
McCain sure looks comfortable, doesn't he?
Do you really think that McCain likes Bush? After the incredibly harsh smear campaign he was subjected to in 2000? A smear campaign that Bush never (publicly) apologized for, despite a direct and public request from McCain?
Anyway, here we go with the hugs
McCain sure looks comfortable, doesn't he?
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Diemen said:Oh come on. The staff at the Hanoi Hilton weren't members of his own party who were currently in office and had all the power. He also wasn't a career politician at the time and didn't have to worry about compromising his beliefs to gain some political ground.
Do you really think that McCain likes Bush? After the incredibly harsh smear campaign he was subjected to in 2000? A smear campaign that Bush never (publicly) apologized for, despite a direct and public request from McCain?
Anyway, here we go with the hugs
McCain sure looks comfortable, doesn't he?
The staff at the Hanoi Hilton had more power over McCain than ANYONE has ever had. Yet they were unable to force him to present a lie about war crimes like Kerry did back in the good old USA.
Smear campaigns are as common as handshakes. Bush and McCain had been in politics a very long time. Bush and McCain have a lot in common politically. You can dream up what ever senerio you want to about how McCain feels personally or deep inside, but I am willing to bet what ever you or I think is probably wrong. We don't know. What we do know is that McCain strongly supports Bush for president. Look at what we factually know. McCain does not need to speak at the convention or do any of this in order to maintain his senate seat in Arizona. There is no personal political motive in helping Bush.
McCain supports Bush because he thinks he did very well the past four years and his views and idea's are much more in keeping with Bush than John Kerry's.
Judah
War Child
I liked what McCain said last night on The Daily Show (i think it was last night) about Dems vs Repubs: Something like "each side should see the other side as opponents not as enemies."
Following that nimrod Zell Miller's speech, McCain's was very refreshing sentiment.
[Oh, and it really wasn't Voltaire who said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Some writer(s) put that together from various other Voltaire sayings after his death. But, you know, he was thinking that stuff. Though, as i seem to remember, he also wasn't a big fan of Islam or Judaism. I could be wrong.
http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030331.html ]
Following that nimrod Zell Miller's speech, McCain's was very refreshing sentiment.
[Oh, and it really wasn't Voltaire who said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Some writer(s) put that together from various other Voltaire sayings after his death. But, you know, he was thinking that stuff. Though, as i seem to remember, he also wasn't a big fan of Islam or Judaism. I could be wrong.
http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030331.html ]
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