Marriage Equality Defended in Massachusetts

[LJT]

I would defer to Melon/Ormus on that, i'd love to know where he gets all his great info though

My understanding is pretty basic of what the Church wants me to believe...their view of homosexuality is stuck in some medieval strain of thought...I don't know what they exactly believe whether homosexuality is natural or not, because all I hear from them at mass is 'it's evil, family destroyer etc'

 

[redhotswami]

I would defer to Melon/Ormus on that, i'd love to know where he gets all his great info though

My understanding is pretty basic of what the Church wants me to believe...their view of homosexuality is stuck in some medieval strain of thought...I don't know what they exactly believe whether homosexuality is natural or not, because all I hear from them at mass is 'it's evil, family destroyer etc'

Omg go to a different mass! That's awful! My catholic church was a very different experience. Our community house was even a registered "Safe Zone" with the university, which is intended specifically for homosexuals to feel welcome, but the message is that Everyone can come and be themselves. Granted...there were members of the community who were narrowminded and judgemental, however our priest and campus minister never said anything of the sort, and even my friends said they felt welcomed.

To be fair though, I'd honestly doubt they'd go as far as to support gay marriage. But at least they aren't downright unaccepting of homosexuals as individuals. Baby steps I suppose

Oh, and Melormus is a genius. He doesn't have to dig up the info anywhere, he knows all.

 

[Sherry Darling]

The linguistic evidence is supportive, as the word traditionally misapplied to "sex acts" literally means "know" (yad'ah).

Wow, so you really can yada yada sex.

(Sorry 'bout that folks, couldn't help it. Carry on.... )

 

[LJT]

Omg go to a different mass! That's awful! My catholic church was a very different experience. Our community house was even a registered "Safe Zone" with the university, which is intended specifically for homosexuals to feel welcome, but the message is that Everyone can come and be themselves. Granted...there were members of the community who were narrowminded and judgemental, however our priest and campus minister never said anything of the sort, and even my friends said they felt welcomed.

To be fair though, I'd honestly doubt they'd go as far as to support gay marriage. But at least they aren't downright unaccepting of homosexuals as individuals. Baby steps I suppose

Oh, and Melormus is a genius. He doesn't have to dig up the info anywhere, he knows all.

That he does!

At the moment i'm just very disenchanted with the Church, people are scapegoating homosexuals for their own dysfuntions. Still I find the Catholic Church most represents my personal faith and i'm a tradionalist when it comes to how I feel the need to express my faith, and the Catholic mass does that for me. It is hard just to sit there and listen to a priest attack how some of my friends and people I know, lead their lives when they hurt no one. Then you hear them go on about materialism and you look at the nice silverware they are using

Belfast is quite a homophobic place though, my parents included...a few weeks back my mum compared homosexuals to paedophiles, asking me whether I would let a gay couple look after a child of mine, would I let them bath him etc I obviously replied yes, her reply 'How would they control themselves?' That really dumbfounded me. I love my mum deeply but that just struck me as so out of her character, she then asked whether I was gay, because you have to apparently be gay to defend their rights. This type of thing is what I think the Catholic Church has to answer for.

 

[redhotswami]

That he does!

At the moment i'm just very disenchanted with the Church, people are scapegoating homosexuals for their own dysfuntions. Still I find the Catholic Church most represents my personal faith and i'm a tradionalist when it comes to how I feel the need to express my faith, and the Catholic mass does that for me. It is hard just to sit there and listen to a priest attack how some of my friends and people I know, lead their lives when they hurt no one. Then you hear them go on about materialism and you look at the nice silverware they are using

Belfast is quite a homophobic place though, my parents included...a few weeks back my mum compared homosexuals to paedophiles, asking me whether I would let a gay couple look after a child of mine, would I let them bath him etc I obviously replied yes, her reply 'How would they control themselves?' That really dumbfounded me. I love my mum deeply but that just struck me as so out of her character, she then asked whether I was gay, because you have to apparently be gay to defend their rights. This type of thing is what I think the Catholic Church has to answer for.

That must be so difficult to deal with. I guess it all depends on the community. There are actual lay ministers here in the states that minister to the homosexual community. By no means do they try to "change" them or anything, it is more of a support group type of thing. Granted, these types of ministries aren't exactly overflowing with volunteers, but they are there, and hopefully they will grow in time.

You know, I'd say look around! If this sort of open minded catholic community can exist here, I'm sure it exists elsewhere too. You may find a community of people who share your ideals.

 

[martha]

I'm gonna ask, although I know you won't answer, but here goes:

I have had a variety of reproductive organs removed. Therefore, I cannot have children. If I continue to have sex with my male husband of 18 years, are we sinning?

Come on. Dude, answer me. School's out, the weekend's coming up. I need to know.

 

[2861U2]

I go off to see the Police, and still no answer. I won't be able to enjoy certain things until I know if I'm sinning.

Believe it or not, I was wrong in that aspect. After doing a little more research and looking some more in the Bible, I realized I was wrong. Unlike animals (who mate only to procreate), God made humans different than animals. Humans use sex to fulfill bodily desires as well. So, yes, I was wrong, and I truly apologize.

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

And what exactly does it say about lesbians?

Huh? I could give you as many passages as you want which condemn homosexuality.

Originally posted by Irvine511

has it occured to you that your religious beliefs pretty much have to be bogus if you have to lie to yourself in order to live with them?

Please tell me how am I lying to myself.

 

[redhotswami]

Huh? I could give you as many passages as you want which condemn homosexuality.

I'm only familiar with passages that speak to man on man action. I don't recall any regarding homosexuality in general. So I'd be interested in your sharing of them too.

 

[LJT]

That must be so difficult to deal with. I guess it all depends on the community. There are actual lay ministers here in the states that minister to the homosexual community. By no means do they try to "change" them or anything, it is more of a support group type of thing. Granted, these types of ministries aren't exactly overflowing with volunteers, but they are there, and hopefully they will grow in time.

You know, I'd say look around! If this sort of open minded catholic community can exist here, I'm sure it exists elsewhere too. You may find a community of people who share your ideals.

I shall keep a look out and thanks for the advice!

 

[martha]

God made humans different than animals. Humans use sex to fulfill bodily desires as well. So, yes, I was wrong, and I truly apologize.

Whew! Good for me, and good for you later in life.


Let the weekend begin!

 

[Irvine511]

Please tell me how am I lying to myself.

the whole "being gay is a choice" thing.

scientists and psychologists disagree with you.

gay people disagree with you.

yet, you're not a scientist, a psychologist, or gay. but you say they're wrong. can't you admit to a little self-delusion at the very least?

 

[redhotswami]

the whole "being gay is a choice" thing.

scientists and psychologists disagree with you.

gay people disagree with you.

yet, you're not a scientist, a psychologist, or gay. but you say they're wrong. can't you admit to a little self-delusion at the very least?

even leaders of some christian churches disagree.

 

[maycocksean]

maycocksean, here is my response to that story. Yes, it is sad and upsetting that such thing occured. However, sorry, that doesnt change my stance.

What's your stance in relationship to the story. Do you think what happened to these women was fair? Do you think the woman should have been allowed to see her partner at her deathbed? Or is it merely sad and "unfortunate" but you'd change nothing?

 

[CTU2fan]

Why can't the anti-gay-marriage folks just be content with the fact that those evil sinning homos are bound for Hell? I mean, isn't Hell enough?

I mean, I really don't get it...why do you care if 2 men get married? It has absolutely no effect on you or your life in any way, other than denying you the chance to force your religious beliefs on somebody else.

I truly cannot understand why the "anti" crowd cares so much. Really.

 

[maycocksean]

Believe it or not, I was wrong in that aspect. After doing a little more research and looking some more in the Bible, I realized I was wrong. Unlike animals (who mate only to procreate), God made humans different than animals. Humans use sex to fulfill bodily desires as well. So, yes, I was wrong, and I truly apologize.



Huh? I could give you as many passages as you want which condemn homosexuality.




Please tell me how am I lying to myself.

Actually I want to challenge this statement on a different point. You said you did " a little more research and looking some more in the Bible." Did you do all that on your own or are you talking to a pastor or somoene else you respect who was able to "quickly correct" you. Because to go from "oral sex is wrong" to "sex was created by God for man and woman to enjoy" in a day or two just based on your own research is pretty amazing

 

[redhotswami]

I don't get it either. If you're anti-gay marriage, then don't get married to someone of the same sex, right? Or am I oversimplifying it. If marriage is supposed to be left between 2 people, then leave it between 2 people and stop trying to invade other peoples' lives.

 

[Sherry Darling]

even leaders of some christian churches disagree.

I hear they even have some gay pastors now.

 

[phillyfan26]

the whole "being gay is a choice" thing.

scientists and psychologists disagree with you.

gay people disagree with you.

yet, you're not a scientist, a psychologist, or gay. but you say they're wrong. can't you admit to a little self-delusion at the very least?

Well, when I told him about the scientists, he did not believe me, so clearly he's been locked up in a basement with nothing but the Bible and a radical priest for the last 20 years. Or, he's lying to himself. One or the other.

 

[2861U2]

Well, when I told him about the scientists, he did not believe me, so clearly he's been locked up in a basement with nothing but the Bible and a radical priest for the last 20 years. Or, he's lying to himself. One or the other.

No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.

 

[Irvine511]

i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.

 

[BVS]

Yeah, it makes a lot more sense that they decide to be gay and live in a world full of people like you.

 

[2861U2]

You said you did " a little more research and looking some more in the Bible." Did you do all that on your own or are you talking to a pastor or somoene else you respect who was able to "quickly correct" you. Because to go from "oral sex is wrong" to "sex was created by God for man and woman to enjoy" in a day or two just based on your own research is pretty amazing

No, I did not talk to anybody. I read a little more and thought a little more, and concluded that I was wrong in my statements, and I fully acknowledge that.

 

[Irvine511]

No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.

while many people agree that it isn't solely genetic, insofar as there isn't a "gay" gene -- just like there isn't a "black" gene or a "white" gene -- there is unanimous consensus that a person does not choose to be gay, that biology plays a large part, and that, most importantly, sexual orientation, whether hetero or homo, is 100% involuntary.

again, i think we're coming back to a few questions:

1. why do you choose to believe that gay people choose to be gay?
2. why are you willing to deny things like hospital visitation rights or sharing of medical benefits to gay domestic partners?
3. what is at threat if gay people were allowed to marry? how would this negatively impact you?

 

[BVS]

Believe it or not, I was wrong in that aspect. After doing a little more research and looking some more in the Bible, I realized I was wrong. Unlike animals (who mate only to procreate), God made humans different than animals. Humans use sex to fulfill bodily desires as well. So, yes, I was wrong, and I truly apologize.

Doesn't it scare you, your lack of Biblical knowledge yet you still go spouting off BS like this? It does me, it embarasses Christians all over.

Huh? I could give you as many passages as you want which condemn homosexuality.

Do you know what year the word homosexuality was first used? Where does the word 'homosexuality' get used in the Bible? And what was original translation?

The truth is, you have no clue about any of these things, do you?

Please tell me how am I lying to myself.

Your posts are dripping with it. You basically come off as a 19 year old that just repeats the rhetoric and hate that you were taught by your parents, Rush, or your minister; for your own knowledge of these subjects is horrible.

 

[joyfulgirl]

i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.

I know we're all passionate about this subject but nothing much will come of making fun of people.

 

[martha]

3. what is at threat if gay people were allowed to marry? how would this negatively impact you?

This is the huge question for everyone.

 

[yolland]

i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.

I know we're all passionate about this subject but nothing much will come of making fun of people.

Thanks guys...you said that more patiently than I would have.

If you really believe you have the stronger argument on your side, there's no need for taunts, which do little or nothing to change minds anyhow.

 

[phillyfan26]

i do have to say that i am getting uncomfortable with the ganging up in this thread. everything has been generally polite, and i feel like direct questions are fine, but let's not speak about someone as if he's not even in the room.

My apologies, although I'm not trying to gang up. I'm more trying to show how ridiculous these statements can sound, however, I agree that it was overly rude and would not help the discussion.

 

[redhotswami]

No, I do not believe you. I have read reports on the internet of scientists stating otherwise- that environment plays a role and that you cannot predict who will be gay. Those are some of the problems with your theory and insistance that being born gay is a fact. It might be, but it might not be. You all seem too eager to accept anything that science says.

I still fail to see how you think I am lying to myself.

I'm curious, could you tell me what journals these articles were in? And if they were peer-reviewed? Because I really doubt the APA would acknowledge claims that aren't research based and empirically tested. I wouldn't trust any article dealing with human behavior that isn't recognized by the APA. I think that believing those particular articles would be "accepting anything that science says." As you say.

I'm not trying to attack you. But I honestly would like you to share these Biblical verses regarding "homosexuality" (not just the man/man stuff but that stuff that includes woman/woman) and these scientific reports that you speak of.

 

[Smallville]

I find it truly embarassing that my religion and that conservatism has been defined by bigots.

I admit to being extremely homophobic when I was younger, it was purely from not knowing and having everyone telling me it was wrong, growing up and actually knowing gay people has changed those views. I just wish more would grow up.