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Old 06-20-2007, 04:26 PM   #81
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Originally posted by Irvine511
can you back up your belief? why -- precisely why -- must marriage be only one thing.

why are you unconcerned with homosexual relationships to the point where you'd do them harm in order to protect your belief?
My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...

And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:34 PM   #82
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Originally posted by 2861U2


My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...

And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.
A shocker!!!!

But this translates into your right to discriminate in civil law exactly how?
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:34 PM   #83
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Narrow minded? I have an opinion, and because it disagrees with your opinion, I'm narrow minded?

I dont think opposing marriage being anything other than a man and a woman is narrow minded or intolerant. I adhere to a strict set of principles which I follow, but I consider myself open minded on many things.
Having both gay and straight marriage is twice as broad as just straight marriage. Relative to me you are narrow minded.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #84
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My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...



as you know, the Bible says a lot of things. does this give you the right to infringe upon the rights of others?



Quote:
And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.


well, as for Biblical "condemnations" of homsexuality, there's another poster in here who's far, far more schooled than i in these matters, so i'll wait for him.

but let's take the part about the body being a temple. i assume you've never masturbated. i assume you'll never engage in oral sex. or use birth control. because each and every time you have sex, it should be for the creation of children.

you know what? i can accept that, from a Biblical perspective. but what follows, logically, is that homosexuality is no worse than masturbation, oral sex, or protect sex, or every time a woman swallows a birth control pill.

but let's get away from you, and let's talk about other people. do you know any gay people? do you know that they're pretty much exactly the same as you, and that their relationships are pretty much exactly the same as yours? and do you know what your attitudes do to them? do you know what the denial of civil rights does to other people?

i'd encourage you to try to walk in someone else's shoes. principles are fine and dandy, but to see if they truly hold up, to see if they are principles worth holding, try and see an issue from someone else's perspective.

how would you feel if you were denied access to your wife as she was dying? how would she feel if she could not see you on her deathbed? how would you feel if your medical/dental benefits were suddenly revoked?

maybe you should ask Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving. they know all about being in a relationship that was condemned from a Biblical and social standpoint.

Mildred is black, and Richard is white. and the judge in Loving vs. Virginia -- from 1967, barely 40 years ago -- said, thusly:

[q]Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.[/q]

how is that *any* different from what you're talking about?
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #85
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:36 PM   #86
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Narrow minded? I have an opinion, and because it disagrees with your opinion, I'm narrow minded?
No, it's because you want YOUR religious views to permeate the social fabric to the point where our laws are influenced by YOUR religious views.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:39 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...

And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.
Good thing God hates fags, but what with the Bible not being the law of the land thats a weak justification for having state discrimination in awarding marraige contracts.

Is oral sex a sin? Or does the Clinton defence apply in the eyes God?
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...

And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.
That's fine and dandy for you. And I certainly don't think you should get married to someone of the same gender if you feel this way. However, there are people who don't believe in your god, or your interpretation of god and the bible who are full citizens of this country and as such should have the same protections under the laws of this secular nation as you do. How hard is that to understand? You don't have to like it or agree with it (I certainly don't agree with many religious types but I don't try to legislate bans on them getting married -- although in some cases it would be a good thing....), but you not liking or agreeing with it is no reason to ban it.

Another thing -- is your parents' marriage so weak that other people's marriages destabilise it? If it is, then your parents shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:49 PM   #89
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Originally posted by 2861U2

The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.

So then would you like a constitutional amendment that denies marriage to all people who are unable to have children due to medical reasons? Even if that turns out to be you one day?
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:55 PM   #90
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Did you read the article posted on page 2 about the woman who was denied being able to be at her partner's bedside as she DIED? If not, could you read it. If you have read it could you please tell me how as a Christian you can not see the heart-breaking injustice of what happened to them?
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Gandhi
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:01 PM   #91
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in all honesty, i certainly feel for the poster who's getting ganged up on. nothing has been rude, but it can't feel good to be in the minority and being told that you are wrong by a loud chorus of voices.

you know, kind of how your average homosexual often feels.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:06 PM   #92
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Is oral sex a sin?
Oral sex absolutely is a sin, IMO. Any sexual act, either with one's self or with others, that is not for the purpose of creating life is a sin. And if I ever do something like that, then yes, I will have sinned.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:07 PM   #93
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I assume that because 2861U2's position is so repulsive,

everyone piling on in this forum could never cast a vote for Hillary, Barack Obama, John Edwards, or Al Gore for president. All bigoted religious zealots. Dangerous even.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:14 PM   #94
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Oral sex absolutely is a sin, IMO. Any sexual act, either with one's self or with others, that is not for the purpose of creating life is a sin. And if I ever do something like that, then yes, I will have sinned.
But isn't sin between you and your god? What interest does the secular state have in it?

PS -- Each to his own, but you are gonna have one VERY boring sex life, sonny.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:24 PM   #95
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everyone piling on in this forum could never cast a vote for Hillary, Barack Obama, John Edwards, or Al Gore for president.
Of course not. The 4 of them oppose gay marriage as well. What do their supporters here have to say to that?
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:26 PM   #96
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I assume that because 2861U2's position is so repulsive,

everyone piling on in this forum could never cast a vote for Hillary, Barack Obama, John Edwards, or Al Gore for president. All bigoted religious zealots. Dangerous even.

most of us aren't one issue voters. and none of them use the Bible as justification for their positions.

they're towing the status quo line, yes, and they're being cowards, unlike Spitzer, but all support Civil Unions at a minimum.

and in a choice of lesser of two evils, i'd rather have someone who would give me some rights as opposed to Romney.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:27 PM   #97
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My belief comes from (get ready) the Bible, folks. The Bible says marriage is a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. Read Genesis 2, 1 Corinthians 7, Ephesians 5...

And my position on homosexuals? Yes, also from the Bible. The Bible condemns such relations and condemns sexual immorality (which includes many things). The body is a temple, a gift from God, meant only for creating life, something which homosexuals cannot do.
That's great and all, but I have no idea what that has to do with everyone else. If your church doesn't agree, thinks it's a sin or doesn't think it fits the definition of marriage, then your church doesn't have to perform those marriages - regardless of the reasons why. You have all the cover in the world for defending the sanctity of the Christian marriage as you and your church may define it. What is so hard to understand about that? Your definition, within your faith, within your church, stays perfectly intact. No-one is trying to, nor can, take that away from you. You know the equivelent of you trying/wanting to push that belief onto the wider community outside yours is the equivalent of the law being passed, with the inclusion of a part that states the church - your church - MUST also perform gay marriages. But no-one would do that, right? Of course not. So understand that pushing for the reverse is exactly the same thing.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:28 PM   #98
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Narrow minded? I have an opinion, and because it disagrees with your opinion, I'm narrow minded?

I dont think opposing marriage being anything other than a man and a woman is narrow minded or intolerant. I adhere to a strict set of principles which I follow, but I consider myself open minded on many things.
You just defined narrow minded. I don't think opposing marriage being "anything but". That is a narrowing definition that eliminates some, and you have nothing NOTHING to back that opinion up.

So it's just your opinion. You don't make laws based on opinion.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:32 PM   #99
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Oral sex absolutely is a sin, IMO. Any sexual act, either with one's self or with others, that is not for the purpose of creating life is a sin. And if I ever do something like that, then yes, I will have sinned.
So your parents only had sex when they had you and whatever siblings you have?

This is a pile of rubbish and has no Biblical backing. Your knowledge of the Bible is abysmal, but care to show anything backing this up?

What denominaion did you grow up?
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:39 PM   #100
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I assume that because 2861U2's position is so repulsive,

everyone piling on in this forum could never cast a vote for Hillary, Barack Obama, John Edwards, or Al Gore for president. All bigoted religious zealots. Dangerous even.
Mercifully I live in a country where even the Conservatives have given up on being anti-gay marriage since they see reality for what it is.
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