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Old 06-29-2010, 05:45 PM   #681
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wait for it ... something about how a single payer option competition across state lines will drive down prices ...

my premiums go up 33% a year.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #682
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Some of us support plans that would eventually sever health care from employment allowing individuals to buy their own insurance tailored to their needs and be completely portable.
Is this option not currently available?

Another question, would it be accurate to say that one of the objections you have to "Obamacare" is the mandate that everyone has to have health insurance? (We know the insurance companies love this part of the law).
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:40 PM   #683
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as a freelancer, this is what i have now.

i hate it. i'm very lucky to be a rich, uppity homosexual without kids and can afford it.
You wouldn't hate it if the tax code treated your insurance the same way it treats insurance purchased by employers. Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:50 PM   #684
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Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.
If I recall rightly, I think the new healthcare bill allows you to do that now. That was a Republican idea, actually, I think.

I remember reading a post somewhere in one of the threads here at one point talking about how the Constitution doesn't guarantee us the right to healthcare. Well, the Constitution, in its original form, didn't allow a LOT of things. That's why we have amendments. Maybe it doesn't need to flat out say, "You have the right to healthcare", but I think we DO have the right to not have to pay an arm and a leg just to go get our teeth taken care of or to go for a simple checkup or be in debt up to our eyeballs because of unforseen medical issues. When an insurance company refuses to cover a BABY because it's "too overweight" or whatever BS reason that one company gave, a baby who has absolutely no control over its eating habits, when children would go uninsured for years because their parents couldn't afford to insure them and had to shell out way too much money to take care of them, that's just wrong and completely screwed up.

Angela
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:53 PM   #685
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Is this option not currently available?

Another question, would it be accurate to say that one of the objections you have to "Obamacare" is the mandate that everyone has to have health insurance? (We know the insurance companies love this part of the law).
I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:53 PM   #686
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Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?
NO, actually if you wanted insurance sold across state lines you would have to give DC more power and insurance less.

We've gone over this a hundred times, the fact that you constantly ignore it and keep grasping to that Hannity talking point just shows you don't understand the issue.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:12 PM   #687
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If I recall rightly, I think the new healthcare bill allows you to do that now. That was a Republican idea, actually, I think.

I remember reading a post somewhere in one of the threads here at one point talking about how the Constitution doesn't guarantee us the right to healthcare. Well, the Constitution, in its original form, didn't allow a LOT of things. That's why we have amendments. Maybe it doesn't need to flat out say, "You have the right to healthcare", but I think we DO have the right to not have to pay an arm and a leg just to go get our teeth taken care of or to go for a simple checkup or be in debt up to our eyeballs because of unforseen medical issues. When an insurance company refuses to cover a BABY because it's "too overweight" or whatever BS reason that one company gave, a baby who has absolutely no control over its eating habits, when children would go uninsured for years because their parents couldn't afford to insure them and had to shell out way too much money to take care of them, that's just wrong and completely screwed up.

Angela
Maybe we should amend the Constitution to enumerate the right of every child to have responsible, loving parents. But you can't have that any more than you can the right to healthcare because someone has to provide them for you.

Can you demand the goods or services of another human being without them losing some of their liberty?

The first 4 minutes of this clip are the best 4 minutes I've ever seen on The Glenn Beck Show. And Glenn Beck was sick that day.

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Old 06-29-2010, 09:22 PM   #688
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
Amen !


Our hospital is going under because of this, as are just about every Major Trauma system in the Country....Beyond bankrupt.. Not to mention small town regional Medical Centers. Privately, We are one of the few who work with people. We often discount, and don't expect them to pay it all off, but we put the idea in their head that it isn't free, nor could it ever be. We actually get more people who pay that way. We write off the rest. It's those small payments that allows us to not go broke, and often makes up the % we can't write off.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:22 PM   #689
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You wouldn't hate it if the tax code treated your insurance the same way it treats insurance purchased by employers. Or if you could shop for insurance across state lines.

But that would take power and control out of Washington DC wouldn't it?


could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?

you also seem to think that health care is just breast implants and contact lenses.

don't really have much of a choice to purchase said "goods and services" when your 6-year old gets cancer or if you have ever been rushed to the ER on a stretcher and spent a week in the ICU.



(and i still love the anti-poor resentment -- yes, those are the fuckers who are gaming the system, the poor people who get hit by cars and can't afford insurance and have the nerve to rack up $45,000 in hospital costs -- THOSE are the people who are ruining America! not the insurance companies! not Wall Street! the POORS!)
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:24 PM   #690
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From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare),
A colleague is eagerly awaiting this socialist/fascist part. Her son is 25 and in college. He suffers from severe seizures if not medicated. Without her insurance, he wouldn't have his neurologists and medication. Of course, he won't be insurable on his own with that kind of pre-existing condition. Fucking Nazi bastard we have for a president, outlawing that denial of coverage.


But I guess this young man shoulda thought ahead before his difficult birth 25 years ago; he should have started a savings account so he could pay for his own damn healthcare. Forget college; he could easily live a box under the freeway.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:25 PM   #691
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could you be more specific? these sound suspiciously like talking points, and i know you work in health care, so you wouldn't just be repeating what you've heard, would you?
Let us know when you get specific answers.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #692
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i guess i really should have shopped around before getting into that ambulance.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #693
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NO, actually if you wanted insurance sold across state lines you would have to give DC more power and insurance less.

We've gone over this a hundred times, the fact that you constantly ignore it and keep grasping to that Hannity talking point just shows you don't understand the issue.
States have the power to regulate insurance, not the Federal Government. Sean Hannity wasn't born when this notion was concieved.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:33 PM   #694
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I deal with insurance companies everyday, I work in healthcare. I know exactly what kind of profits they make, and you are way off my friend.
Try Dunn and Bradstreet. more reliable than ACORN
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:35 PM   #695
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i guess i really should have shopped around before getting into that ambulance.
Your County set's the rates for Ambulance/EMS cost. It is usually subsidized by property taxes.

I pay for schools but don't have any kids. Is that right ?
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:40 PM   #696
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Your County set's the rates for Ambulance/EMS cost. It is usually subsidized by property taxes.

I pay for schools but don't have any kids. Is that right ?
Yes. I neither have children, nor ride in ambulances, but the benefits to society from having both educated citizens and emergency care far outweigh the negatives of any tax subsidies of either of these things.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:41 PM   #697
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nevermind
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:47 PM   #698
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good. But what I would do is change the crazy notion that you can just show up for healthcare and expect not to pay for it. If you don't purchase homeowners insurance and your house burns down; good luck waiting for someone to build you a new one for free. Same with auto insurance.

From the day you're no longer covered under your parents insurance (which I think when fully implemented will be 35 years old under Obamacare), You must either show proof of insurance on your income tax returns or sign a waiver allowing hospitals, doctors, NPs, PTs and everyone else that may treat you should you show up at their door with no insurance an opportunity to garnish your wages until such time as your bill is paid.
Fair enough. So, if you choose not to purchase health insurance and can't pay for care, die at home. I wanted to suggest to the guy outside the library petitioning for Ohio to be exempt from the new healthcare reform bill that every person complaining about being required to buy health care sign a waiver just like the one you described.

If you're so pissed about having to purchase coverage, promise you won't seek treatment for yourself or your children that you can't pay for out of pocket.

But of course, when you're kid breaks his neck in a football game and they call the ambulance, go ahead and stop the paramedics from treating him. Go ahead and tell them "hey, we didn't want the government telling us we had to buy coverage and we can't pay for this kind of injury, so go on back to the hospital." And then tell your kid, "Sorry kid, you'll have to tough it out. We won't be STEALING other people's money at the hospital."

I guess that's what you'd call the courage of your convictions.

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Maybe we should amend the Constitution to enumerate the right of every child to have responsible, loving parents. But you can't have that any more than you can the right to healthcare because someone has to provide them for you.

Can you demand the goods or services of another human being without them losing some of their liberty?

The first 4 minutes of this clip are the best 4 minutes I've ever seen on The Glenn Beck Show. And Glenn Beck was sick that day.

It's fascinating to watch these guys at work. They really are good. If you don't pay close attention, it would be very easy to find yourself thinking "Wow, hey, yeah that's right. That totally makes sense!"

But this right/good dichotomy is simply false. Health care isn't exactly a right, but neither is it quite a mere commodity.

Here's where the misrepresentation is: People don't just show up the doctor and demand, for example, that they get their annual checkup for free, and the doctor is compelled to give it to them. People don't show up at the dentist and say, hey I want my wisdom teeth out but I can't pay for it, so give it to me free--and the dentist does so. People do show up in emergency rooms with life-threatening conditions and there isn't a doctor worthy of the name who would look at a person whose life is in immediate jeapordy and ask: "Wait, wait. . I know you're bleeding out and all, but can you pay for this? No? Then what the fuck are you doing here? You've got some nerve showing up here bloodying the place up and you knew you couldn't pay. Get outta here. . ." Doctors and other health care professionals understand that they are not merely providing a "good". It's more than that.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:49 PM   #699
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States have the power to regulate insurance, not the Federal Government. Sean Hannity wasn't born when this notion was concieved.
Are you sure you're in the medical industry? How do you have no clue what I'm talking about?

You missed my point completely! Do you not understand that if you want insurance sold across state lines you would need the same healthcare regulations and defintions? This is lost on INDY, but you get this don't you?

So if you want this, you would have to give this power over to the federal government.


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Try Dunn and Bradstreet. more reliable than ACORN
I'll stick with my personal experience of working the industry.

But thanks...

Any word on those links yet?
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:53 PM   #700
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I don't think it's constitutional to require the purchase of a good.
What about this nonsense about being required by law to have car insurance? That violation of your constitutional rights bother you too?
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