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Old 03-30-2010, 10:40 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Stubbornly carrying out the will of the majority of Americans who; in elections, polls and town halls were screaming, "Kill this bill and start over."


have you seen the polls recently?

but, while we're at it, let's just put every issue to a vote. do away with the lawmakers.

it works so well in California.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:54 PM   #602
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Stubbornly carrying out the will of the majority of Americans who; in elections, polls and town halls were screaming, "Kill this bill and start over."
Well I would say the (very narrow) majority of Americans who disapprove of the health care bill as one whole piece of legislation known as "Obamacare" do so because they believe what the Republicans have said about it. Death panels, government takeover of your doctor's office, massive tax increases on the middle class, massive cuts to medicare, scary socialism, etc.

When you take out the main provisions individually, the majority of Americans(close to 60% in some polls) support health care reform.

Not a damn person would approve of it if it were how the right characterized it, and not a damn person, myself included would approve of things like the cornhusker kickback(though much worse was done to get votes under Republicans).

What the Republicans have done is use scare tactics, falsehoods and embellishment of the ugly parts of the process(again, inexcusable but present in almost all legislation) to tag the whole effort with a toxic label.

I do not let the Democrats off without blame here. I never heard a one of them, until very recently, go out and say "health care reform is good, and should pass because of x, y and z specific provisions that will be helpful to your families." No repetition of the main, good points of the bill, just talking in broad terms about a bill that had already been framed by the Republicans over the summer of 2009.

My frustration with the Dems now runs deep in that, with the right amount of control over their message, health care reform could have been passed in summer 2009 and we could have moved on to other important issues.

Safe to say no one calls me up before these decisions are made, though!!
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:01 PM   #603
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And yes, I'll call them Tea Baggers all I want.
You like the way it rolls off your tongue huh?
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:13 AM   #604
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Romney defends Massachusetts health care law - The Boston Globe

Just in case there was any doubt left that this is the most disingenuous, slimy, flip flopping excuse for a candidate we have seen in a very, very long time.

All this guy has ever been is a slippery, slick opportunist.

Notice he can not point out the obvious, major difference between Romneycare and Obamacare because it reflects poorly on him and his "fiscal conservative" credentials! Obama actually addressed costs, while Romney ignored this. That, for better or worse, is the only real substantive difference between the two.

If you look at the article, all of the objective outside advisers involved in the passage of both laws uniformly call bullshit on Romney!

Romney's ability to "get" anything is truly gone if he thinks that a pathetic showing in a 2008 primary where the base was far from enthusiastic about the ultimate winner is a sign that the country will be very receptive to him in 2012!

My Dad, who has passed on, would always say back in the early and mid 00s when Romney was governor of MA: "he has reached the highest office he will ever attain." And all of his political friends- Democrat and Republican, agreed. Us Massachusetts people find it quite amusing that Romney is talked about so much in the national forum. He was almost uniformly viewed as a joke and a lightweight when he was hanging out here. If you know anything about MA politics, you know that represented a stark contrast from popular Republican Governors Bill Weld and Paul Cellucci.

Despite his attempts at redoing his image 60 million times since then, Romney is no closer to proving my dad wrong!
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:19 AM   #605
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You like the way it rolls off your tongue huh?




or, chin.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:37 AM   #606
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What do you mean?
i just meant that as much am radio and polls don't represent america, the big news machines do not either.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:54 AM   #607
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i just meant that as much am radio and polls don't represent america, the big news machines do not either.
Right, I think that's why it's dangerous to claim anyone has the pulse on what the majority think.

Most polls ask maybe 1200 people a few questions, and they hope that statisically that will represent the people.

Even our government is a game of representation. We vote for someone, we hear their platform and they go... Have you ever been polled by your Senator on what you think of particular issues?

So I find it laughable that anyone thinks they know the pulse of the majority, and even if you did, the majority isn't always right.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:55 PM   #608
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I get polled all the time.

I think it is because I am in that group. "likely voters"

I have voted 100% of the time in every single election, no matter how trivial it was.

Also, I do occasionally make contributions.


I think polls, especially a compilation of several, is a good indication of public opinion.

Some polls are thinly disguised 'push polls' to try an influence one to vote for or against someone. In CA we have several contested primaries. I have been getting calls claiming to be polls that begin with a question on immigration or taxes and based on an answer, they next ask you if you would likely vote for candidate X if he supported immigration reform, etc.
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:39 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post


or, chin.
So you got the reference? I still don't.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:50 AM   #610
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Old 04-02-2010, 02:38 PM   #611
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“If you voted for Obama, seek urologic care elsewhere.
Changes to your healthcare begin right now.
Not in four years.”



http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...ewhere/?src=mv

Quote:
Fla. doctor's sign warns away Obama supporters

(AP) – 38 minutes ago

MOUNT DORA, Fla. — A Florida urologist is so upset with the new health care bill that he's posted a sign at his practice warning President Barack Obama's supporters to find another doctor.

The notice on Dr. Jack Cassell's Mount Dora office says: "If you voted for Obama, seek urologic care elsewhere."

Cassell tells the Orlando Sentinel he's not turning away patients, because that would be unethical. But the 56-year-old says it's OK with him if any Obama supporters chose not to see him after reading the sign.

The urologist also keeps Republican materials in the waiting room.

Experts say Cassell is toeing a thin line between right and wrong.

Doctors can't legally discriminate based on a patient's race, gender or religion, but civil rights laws don't explicitly protect political opinions.
Is this guy fit to be a doctor?

I guess he has his 'rights' to express his opinion.

But I wonder why he got into 'medicine' in the first place.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:41 PM   #612
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But I wonder why he got into 'medicine' in the first place.
Exactly...

Any doctor that promotes a political agenda in his waiting room already is very questionable.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:02 PM   #613
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Yeah, nothing worse than agenda promoting doctors.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:24 PM   #614
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Hmm, let's see. One agenda involves giving more people access to affordable medical care. The other agenda involves denying people care because you don't like their politics.

I wonder which one's worse.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:32 PM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
“If you voted for Obama, seek urologic care elsewhere.
Changes to your healthcare begin right now.
Not in four years.”



‘If You Voted for Obama, Seek Urologic Care Elsewhere’ - Prescriptions Blog - NYTimes.com
Guess he only wants to take the piss out of Republicans.


You know, if this guy has his shorts in this much of a twist, I really don't think I'd want him messing with my nether regions anyway.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:34 PM   #616
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I hope I'm not being repetitive here.. but I thought this was interesting:


Side-by-Side Comparison of Major Health Care Reform Proposals - Kaiser Family Foundation

A side by side comparison of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (P.L. 111-148) with amendments included in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872) and Former Majority Leaders: Senators Howard Baker, Tom Daschle, & Bob Dole Crossing Our Lines: Working Together to Reform the U.S. Health System

Quote:
Current Plan:
Require most U.S. citizens and legal residents to have health insurance.

Bipartisan plan:
Require all Americans and legal residents to have health insurance.
Quote:
Current Plan:
Create state-based American Health Benefit Exchanges through which individuals can purchase coverage, with premium and cost-sharing credits available to individuals/families with income between 133-400% of the federal poverty level (the poverty level is $18,310 for a family of three in 2009) and create separate Exchanges through which small businesses can purchase coverage.

Bipartisan plan:
Create state-based health insurance exchanges through which individuals and employers can purchase health coverage, with premium credits available to individuals/families with incomes up to 400% of the federal poverty level.
Quote:
Current Plan:
Require employers to pay penalties for employees who receive tax credits for health insurance through an Exchange, with exceptions for small employers.

Bipartisan plan:
Require employers to provide coverage to employees or pay a fee based on annual payroll, with exceptions for certain small employers, and provide certain small employers a credit to offset the costs of providing coverage.
Quote:
Current Plan:
Impose new regulations on health plans in the Exchanges and in the individual and small group markets.

Bipartisan plan:
Impose new regulations on plans participating in the exchanges and in the individual and small group insurance markets.
Quote:
Current Plan:
Expand Medicaid to 133% of the federal poverty level.

Bipartisan plan:
Expand Medicaid to 100% of the poverty level.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:07 PM   #617
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I hope I'm not being repetitive here.. but I thought this was interesting:


Side-by-Side Comparison of Major Health Care Reform Proposals - Kaiser Family Foundation

A side by side comparison of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (P.L. 111-148) with amendments included in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872) and Former Majority Leaders: Senators Howard Baker, Tom Daschle, & Bob Dole Crossing Our Lines: Working Together to Reform the U.S. Health System
Very good. Thank you for this!!

You could go on and on about the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care act that, before 2009 were bipartisan and non controversial.

This is just more evidence of the Republican Party's agenda of obstruction at all costs. Not that you should need evidence, it was their STATED agenda and strategy right from the beginning of the Obama presidency to distort everything he is doing into something socialistic or un American and then oppose it lock step.

So I guess big thank yous are in order for Eric Cantor, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Jim Demint and the rest of the Republican team that has decided not to discuss issues in good faith in a time when perhaps doing just that is more important than ever.

All I know is the rhetoric coming out of the Republicans and their friends on talk radio, the vitriol, the lockstep obstruction at all costs is the Republican party overplaying their hand. They will not have anywhere near as much success as they think they will in November if they keep going like this and the economy keeps improving.
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:57 AM   #618
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Very good. Thank you for this!!

You could go on and on about the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care act that, before 2009 were bipartisan and non controversial.
What I would like to see happen is that people are educated about this without making it seem like they are being educated by "liberals" or that the "conservatives" are playing games. While I cannot understand why the Republican party would distance themselves from policy that they helped create, pointing that out just isn't going to make a difference. People will feel attacked by "the other side" and shut down. I understand that there are some that do know what the reform means and just don't want it, but I know there are a lot of other people that don't understand it and think they don't want it. Those people need to be educated.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:54 PM   #619
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Yeah, nothing worse than agenda promoting doctors.

I KNOW! Doctors wanting people to be healthy and have access to care. How dare they follow through on the oath they took to help others.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:38 AM   #620
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I saw a bit of Michael Moore on Larry King last night. He had a contest on his web site to find out the penalty for insurance companies for denying coverage to someone with a preexisting condition. He says that it's hidden in the bill, that it's only $100.00 a day. So they could essentially just pay that and it would cost them less than just stringing someone along who has any life threatening illness or disease. Um, that doesn't sound good enough at all to me.
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