MANDATORY health insurance, part 2 - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-18-2009, 09:29 AM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 02:35 PM
You know things are bad when O'Reilly looks like the most sane person on the crazy train. I think he just looked bad before all the real crazies came out. So now he seems warm and cuddly and safe.
__________________

MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:53 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 02:35 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

"We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, said in an interview with Reuters.

Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

The findings come amid a fierce debate over Democrats' efforts to reform the nation's $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry by expanding coverage and reducing healthcare costs.

President Barack Obama's has made the overhaul a top domestic policy priority, but his plan has been besieged by critics and slowed by intense political battles in Congress, with the insurance and healthcare industries fighting some parts of the plan.

The Harvard study, funded by a federal research grant, was published in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health. It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or "single-payer" health insurance.

An similar study in 1993 found those without insurance had a 25 percent greater risk of death, according to the Harvard group. The Institute of Medicine later used that data in its 2002 estimate showing about 18,000 people a year died because they lacked coverage.

Part of the increased risk now is due to the growing ranks of the uninsured, Himmelstein said. Roughly 46.3 million people in the United States lacked coverage in 2008, the U.S. Census Bureau reported last week, up from 45.7 million in 2007.

Another factor is that there are fewer places for the uninsured to get good care. Public hospitals and clinics are shuttering or scaling back across the country in cities like New Orleans, Detroit and others, he said.

Study co-author Dr. Steffie Woolhandler said the findings show that without proper care, uninsured people are more likely to die from complications associated with preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease.

Some critics called the study flawed.

The National Center for Policy Analysis, a Washington think tank that backs a free-market approach to health care, said researchers overstated the death risk and did not track how long subjects were uninsured.

Woolhandler said that while Physicians for a National Health Program supports government-backed coverage, the Harvard study's six researchers closely followed the methodology used in the 1993 study conducted by researchers in the federal government as well as the University of Rochester in New York.

The Harvard researchers analyzed data on about 9,000 patients tracked by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics through the year 2000. They excluded older Americans because those aged 65 or older are covered by the U.S. Medicare insurance program.

"For any doctor ... it's completely a no-brainer that people who can't get health care are going to die more from the kinds of things that health care is supposed to prevent," said Woolhandler, a professor of medicine at Harvard and a primary care physician in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
__________________

MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:19 AM   #23
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,392
Local Time: 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
You know things are bad when O'Reilly looks like the most sane person on the crazy train. I think he just looked bad before all the real crazies came out. So now he seems warm and cuddly and safe.


this might be part of the business plan.

although, to his credit, and while, again, i think it's part of the business model, O'Reilly does distinguish himself from the undistinguishable anger of Beck/Malkin/Coulter/Limbaugh.

it's his demeanor that i find more offensive, and his posturing as some sort of avenging angel of the working class, as well as his aggressive and smug self-promotion.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:03 AM   #24
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 01:35 PM
You can't trust anything that comes out of Harvard, they are a communist college according to Rush...
BVS is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:55 PM   #25
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 01:35 PM
That means 2,381,264 died with health insurance.
HyperU2 is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #26
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,684
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
That means 2,381,264 died with health insurance.
okay?
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:14 PM   #27
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,257
Local Time: 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
Actually, he doesn't support a public option. He clarified what he meant on his show tonight:

"For example, the far-left is putting out that I am now supporting a public option in healthcare. That's all over the net. But that's not true. Here's the truth:

(plays aforementioned clip)

So I support a marketplace for private insurance companies overseen by the feds. Left-wing zealots distorted my remarks like they usually do"
2861U2 is offline  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:37 PM   #28
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
okay?
Ok, 45 million uninsured and we only lost 45k. Meh.
HyperU2 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 01:01 AM   #29
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post

So I support a marketplace for private insurance companies overseen by the feds.
Well in a way this shows his change of heart but it also shows his ignorance.

As shown by INDY's posts the "free market" doesn't really exist.

Will a truly informed conservative ever step up?

2861, do you know of anyone who has an educated conservative response?
BVS is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 05:34 AM   #30
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,684
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Ok, 45 million uninsured and we only lost 45k. Meh.
i don't see how that's okay at all but well, for lack of a better word, okay.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 09:15 AM   #31
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,392
Local Time: 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
So I support a marketplace for private insurance companies overseen by the feds. Left-wing zealots distorted my remarks like they usually do"



this is what happens in the Netherlands and Switzerlands -- universal coverage is mandatory, and though it's all done by private insurance, it's *heavily* regulated by the government.

i could get behind that.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 11:03 AM   #32
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Well in a way this shows his change of heart but it also shows his ignorance.

As shown by INDY's posts the "free market" doesn't really exist.

Will a truly informed conservative ever step up?
So if "the free market doesn't really exist" how can we say that it's failed and that it's time to go to the bullpen for government-run heathcare?

1) Lift the law barring purchase of health insurance across state lines.
2) Eliminate mandates for coverage people don't want or feel they need.
3) Reform the tax code to reward, rather than punish, those that buy their own insurance.

To paraphrase Lennon (rather than Lenin).
All we are saying
Is give them a chance
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 11:21 AM   #33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
this is what happens in the Netherlands and Switzerlands -- universal coverage is mandatory, and though it's all done by private insurance, it's *heavily* regulated by the government.

i could get behind that.
I'm not sure their system would work in a country where a large portion of the population is, shall we say, more in tune with the entitlement, rights and equality thing than the civic duty, personal responsibility and freedom thing.

I'm all for consumer protection mandates but not mandates regulating price or the product.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 11:26 AM   #34
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 02:35 PM
b-b-but the insurance companies say free healthcare is SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!

we cant have that! God says socialism is a SINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN and you'll go to HELLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!
bigjohn2441 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 11:38 AM   #35
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,392
Local Time: 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
I'm not sure their system would work in a country where a large portion of the population is, shall we say, more in tune with the entitlement, rights and equality thing than the civic duty, personal responsibility and freedom thing.

I'm all for consumer protection mandates but not mandates regulating price or the product.


i am totally confused by this.

are you saying that there are proportionally more people in the US who are lazy and expect entitlements than there are in the Netherlands?

must be all those crackhead welfare Queens? those illegal immigrants?

not that there's *anything* racist about that.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 12:00 PM   #36
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Tiger Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Everglades
Posts: 4,740
Local Time: 02:35 PM
nevermind
Tiger Edge is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 12:07 PM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
must be all those crackhead welfare Queens? those illegal immigrants?

not that there's *anything* racist about that.
Wow. Maureen Dowd has nothing on you when it comes to putting words in the mouths of those that you disagree with.

I could just as easily been talking about the just-out-of-college young professional that sees no need to buy insurance, gravely obese white families on Medicaid or all the senior citizens screaming "hands off my Medicare."

Or I could just be talking about the rhetoric of politicians and pundits in this debate.

But, the new narrative from the Left is that the healthcare debate has now become a "racial issue," so of course you hear (even though I don't actually say) is "welfare queen" and "illegal immigrant."

Kool-aid drinking after Labor Day is so out of season.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 09-19-2009, 02:27 PM   #38
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,392
Local Time: 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Wow. Maureen Dowd has nothing on you when it comes to putting words in the mouths of those that you disagree with.

I could just as easily been talking about the just-out-of-college young professional that sees no need to buy insurance, gravely obese white families on Medicaid or all the senior citizens screaming "hands off my Medicare."

Or I could just be talking about the rhetoric of politicians and pundits in this debate.

But, the new narrative from the Left is that the healthcare debate has now become a "racial issue," so of course you hear (even though I don't actually say) is "welfare queen" and "illegal immigrant."

Kool-aid drinking after Labor Day is so out of season.



firstly, "you lie," came as a direct result of speaking about illegal immigrants.

however, i just find it surprising that you think that socialist Stalin apologists have more get-up-and-go and can-do-attitude than red blooded Americans.

but, wow. you've surprised me. fair enough.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:05 PM   #39
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
So if "the free market doesn't really exist" how can we say that it's failed and that it's time to go to the bullpen for government-run heathcare?
It started out free and morphed into the bullshit we live in now. Seriously, you have to know this, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
1) Lift the law barring purchase of health insurance across state lines.
Do some research, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HELPED PUT THIS IN PLACE! I've explained this several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
2) Eliminate mandates for coverage people don't want or feel they need.
Like what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
3) Reform the tax code to reward, rather than punish, those that buy their own insurance.
Okay, but how exactly?
BVS is offline  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:11 PM   #40
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Time for a little humor:

Protect Insurance Companies PSA
__________________

Diemen is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Dog Lovers.... Part 3 U2Fanatic4ever Lemonade Stand 1019 05-19-2012 03:35 AM
Hell-th Insurance WARNING: LONG POST! BluRmGrl Zoo Confessionals 7 10-26-2006 09:04 PM
On (not) having health insurance wolfeden Zoo Confessionals 14 03-24-2004 11:15 AM
White House seeks control on health, safety Scarletwine Free Your Mind Archive 1 01-13-2004 04:54 PM
Bono today at the conference in Africa U2Kitten Everything You Know Is Wrong Archive 9 01-15-2002 09:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×