MANDATORY health insurance

bigjohn2441 · 06-09-2009, 12:48 PM

sorry no link, but i was just watching CNN on lunchbreak and they were talking about a bill "democratic leaders" are hoping to finish drafting by july 4. it will force everyone to have health insurance with threat of "a penalty" for those that dont have it. also, it proposes a government run health insurance to compete with the private companies.

me being libertarian, you can probably guess how i feel about it. just wonder what people's thoughts are on this.

mikal · 06-09-2009, 12:51 PM

i'm fine with it.

BVS · 06-09-2009, 12:55 PM

I'd have to see more about it to really comment...

I definately believe healthcare is a moral issue and needs to be in the hands of everyone.

Now I'm not sure about the mandatory health care, I can see the thinking behind having everyone needing at least a minimum coverage for those that don't have insurance and get emergency healthcare anyways can be an issue.

Pearl · 06-09-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

it will force everyone to have health insurance with threat of "a penalty" for those that dont have it.

What kind of penalty? Does that mean punishing those who chose not to get mandatory healthcare?

Like BVS, I'm not sure where I stand on this. Yes, I do think health insurance should be accessible to all, but mandatory? That seems like too much for me.

bigjohn2441 · 06-09-2009, 01:01 PM

Health-care debate heats up as Senate, House grapple with plans - CNN.com

this is what i could find on the website

bigjohn2441 · 06-09-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl

What kind of penalty? Does that mean punishing those who chose not to get mandatory healthcare?

they'll send the people that dont have it to the FEMA camps

but yeah, thats what it sounds like.

what im thinking is this new government healtcare might be looking to run the private ones out of business until everyone is forced to have the government's healthcare.

which means the private ones might have to actually lower rates to keep up. but that means losing profit!

martha · 06-09-2009, 02:26 PM

It's idiotic.

If people could actually afford insurance, they'd have it. It's another dodge so the Democrats can avoid the real issue, nationalized health care, and so the Republicans can fell like they're doing something, but not supporting nationalized health care. Neither party has the guts to make any real changes.

bigjohn2441 · 06-09-2009, 02:36 PM

yes, force us to have overpriced healthcare that when something actually happens and you need it, you find out "oh well that isnt covered"

forcing us to have something that is pretty much screwing us out of money.

Bonoa · 06-09-2009, 02:41 PM

I understand that it's another policy in the US which is pushed down the throat. I also understand that health insurance is very expensive there and that the majority of Americans can't afford it.

But there are a few benefits: When everybody has to pay for it, the monthly costs do not have be so high (not as they are now!) And when you go to the family doctor, the hospital or have to use medication, that'll be for free or you have to pay just a small amount of money once.

When you have to have a liver transplant for example, now you have to pay $45.000 (source: Oprah Winfrey in a 2008 show on health care and poverty in the US

). Poor people would die and even the richer ones feel it! With health care, everyone has a chance to have that surgery, wether you're rich or poor.

But it's wrong to have a penalty system for people who don't have it; we're still talking about a democracy here!

Vincent Vega · 06-09-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

yes, force us to have overpriced healthcare that when something actually happens and you need it, you find out "oh well that isnt covered"

forcing us to have something that is pretty much screwing us out of money.

So the current, profit-driven system is not overpriced? Or just not as overpriced?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonoa

But it's wrong to have a penalty system for people who don't have it; we're still talking about a democracy here!

Germany is a democracy with mandatory health care.

bigjohn2441 · 06-09-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

So the current, profit-driven system is not overpriced? Or just not as overpriced?

uh, the current system is what im talking about. as overpriced as what?

Vincent Vega · 06-09-2009, 03:52 PM

"force us to have" to me sounds like future, not present. Sorry.

Bonoa · 06-09-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

Germany is a democracy with mandatory health care.

Holland is too! And I'd like to say here that if my boyfriend had to pay the full price for his MRI scans, surgery, revalidation and visits to the family doctor and two neurologists last year, he would have been forced to A) have a loan (for which he would have to pay now with interest) or B) he would be dead right now, simply because he couldn't have afforded it.
I think the above happens to the majority of the people who don't have (mandatory) health insurance and I'm only talking about the western world.

BVS · 06-09-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn2441

which means the private ones might have to actually lower rates to keep up. but that means losing profit!

Losing profit?

Health insurance is the only industry I can think of that is completely and utterly mismanaged, wasteful, unorganized, and incompetant and still make shit loads of profit. Believe me I used to be in medical sales I know how they work.

If you actually put some doctors or healthcare professionals in the industry along with some business savy people you could actually cut costs, give better care, and make the same profits. But it's like every other industry, they are acting on status quo and they are all in cahoots with each just enough not to rock the boat too much but still compete with each other. If someone came in and actually made these guys step up their game and truly become competitive it could change a lot of things.

Salome · 06-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonoa

When everybody has to pay for it, the monthly costs do not have be so high (not as they are now!)

financeguy · 06-09-2009, 04:57 PM

Ireland does not have mandatory health insurance, but the cost of insurance is relatively cheap, compared to the US (I assume because it is subsidised).

Of course, those who refuse to obtain health insurance spend all their time complaining about waiting lists.

Make it mandatory and subsidise it, as per Europe, is the solution I favour.

HyperU2 · 06-09-2009, 05:23 PM

I'm sure with the Government running things in the insurance department all will go much more smoothly. It'll be like the FEMA of health care.

corianderstem · 06-09-2009, 05:34 PM

My guess is that by "penalty" they mean some sort of tax impact. Hawaii has mandatory health coverage, but I'm not sure what their penalty is.

Massachusetts has something specific around those lines as well, but I might be confusing certain state programs for health care with what is or what isn't mandatory.

(I work with employee benefits for my company, so I should know the specifics of these things. But I just know how they work in relation to our employees, not in general.

)

anitram · 06-09-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy

Make it mandatory and subsidise it, as per Europe, is the solution I favour.

Irvine511 · 06-09-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperU2

I'm sure with the Government running things in the insurance department all will go much more smoothly. It'll be like the FEMA of health care.

so it's just the American government that doesn't work, right? because all other Western countries have universal health care with varying levels of government participation and they seem to somehow still be surviving (and have a longer life expectancy and lower rates of obesity).

government only fails when Republicans are in charge.

06-09-2009, 12:48 PM	#1
bigjohn2441 Refugee Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,593 Local Time: 09:29 PM	MANDATORY health insurance sorry no link, but i was just watching CNN on lunchbreak and they were talking about a bill "democratic leaders" are hoping to finish drafting by july 4. it will force everyone to have health insurance with threat of "a penalty" for those that dont have it. also, it proposes a government run health insurance to compete with the private companies. me being libertarian, you can probably guess how i feel about it. just wonder what people's thoughts are on this. __________________

06-09-2009, 12:51 PM	#2
mikal Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Black Lodge Posts: 26,074 Local Time: 08:29 PM	i'm fine with it. __________________

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06-09-2009, 12:55 PM	#3
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,228 Local Time: 07:29 PM	I'd have to see more about it to really comment... I definately believe healthcare is a moral issue and needs to be in the hands of everyone. Now I'm not sure about the mandatory health care, I can see the thinking behind having everyone needing at least a minimum coverage for those that don't have insurance and get emergency healthcare anyways can be an issue.

06-09-2009, 01:01 PM	#5
bigjohn2441 Refugee Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,593 Local Time: 09:29 PM	Health-care debate heats up as Senate, House grapple with plans - CNN.com this is what i could find on the website

06-09-2009, 02:26 PM	#7
martha Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place Posts: 42,555 Local Time: 06:29 PM	It's idiotic. If people could actually afford insurance, they'd have it. It's another dodge so the Democrats can avoid the real issue, nationalized health care, and so the Republicans can fell like they're doing something, but not supporting nationalized health care. Neither party has the guts to make any real changes.

06-09-2009, 02:36 PM	#8
bigjohn2441 Refugee Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,593 Local Time: 09:29 PM	yes, force us to have overpriced healthcare that when something actually happens and you need it, you find out "oh well that isnt covered" forcing us to have something that is pretty much screwing us out of money.

06-09-2009, 02:41 PM	#9
Bonoa Refugee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: a nuthouse for total Egyptfreaks Posts: 1,040 Local Time: 02:29 AM	I understand that it's another policy in the US which is pushed down the throat. I also understand that health insurance is very expensive there and that the majority of Americans can't afford it. But there are a few benefits: When everybody has to pay for it, the monthly costs do not have be so high (not as they are now!) And when you go to the family doctor, the hospital or have to use medication, that'll be for free or you have to pay just a small amount of money once. When you have to have a liver transplant for example, now you have to pay $45.000 (source: Oprah Winfrey in a 2008 show on health care and poverty in the US ). Poor people would die and even the richer ones feel it! With health care, everyone has a chance to have that surgery, wether you're rich or poor. But it's wrong to have a penalty system for people who don't have it; we're still talking about a democracy here!

06-09-2009, 03:52 PM	#12
Vincent Vega Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 6,659 Local Time: 03:29 AM	"force us to have" to me sounds like future, not present. Sorry.

06-09-2009, 04:57 PM	#16
financeguy ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 10,122 Local Time: 02:29 AM	Ireland does not have mandatory health insurance, but the cost of insurance is relatively cheap, compared to the US (I assume because it is subsidised). Of course, those who refuse to obtain health insurance spend all their time complaining about waiting lists. Make it mandatory and subsidise it, as per Europe, is the solution I favour.

06-09-2009, 05:23 PM	#17
HyperU2 War Child Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Carlisle PA Posts: 818 Local Time: 08:29 PM	I'm sure with the Government running things in the insurance department all will go much more smoothly. It'll be like the FEMA of health care.

06-09-2009, 05:34 PM	#18
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 06:29 PM	My guess is that by "penalty" they mean some sort of tax impact. Hawaii has mandatory health coverage, but I'm not sure what their penalty is. Massachusetts has something specific around those lines as well, but I might be confusing certain state programs for health care with what is or what isn't mandatory. (I work with employee benefits for my company, so I should know the specifics of these things. But I just know how they work in relation to our employees, not in general. )