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Old 09-09-2009, 01:33 PM   #901
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are you implying that Obama called Sarah Palin a pig?
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:14 PM   #902
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I saw this back in July.

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Old 09-09-2009, 07:23 PM   #903
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Anybody else watching the speech?
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:40 PM   #904
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Guess not. . .

One thing I don't really understand is the health exchange.

The boos by the Republicans on the issue of illegal immigrants? WTF? Some guys carrying a sign of some sort. .. it all seems so shamelessly politically motivated.

Sad.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:49 PM   #905
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One thing I cannot believe and will not believe that reform won't add to the deficit though.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:56 PM   #906
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What bothers me is the sense I get that many Republican lawmakers, for political reasons, won't work with Obama no matter what he says, because they feel it will cost them votes. It's the very opposite of what this country needs and the very opposite of constructive governance.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:22 PM   #907
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OK, that was a good speech. He hit the areas I wanted to see hit and the way I wanted to see them hit. Still a little sparse on the details and I want to know the details, and like Sean, I'm pretty sure that it's going to add to the deficit. This issue might be worth it, though. Yeah, I was pleased with the speech. Wasn't sure I was going to be.

The Republican response was pretty sad.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:39 PM   #908
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I only got to listen to the speech as I was on my way home. It was great, as per usual. I clapped a few times.

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The Republican response was pretty sad.
The Republican response is always sad. At least he didn't bring up volcanoes.

ETA: Rep Joe Wilson from SC is an ass. He's the one who yelled "You lie" when Obama said that illegals wouldn't be covered. Show some respect.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:56 PM   #909
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OK, that was a good speech. He hit the areas I wanted to see hit and the way I wanted to see them hit. Still a little sparse on the details and I want to know the details, and like Sean, I'm pretty sure that it's going to add to the deficit. This issue might be worth it, though. Yeah, I was pleased with the speech. Wasn't sure I was going to be.

The Republican response was pretty sad.
The sense I get is that Obama is flexible on the details. There are certain things he wants to see accomplished and he's willing to get there any number of ways. His reasonable approach makes the more wild-eyed Republican oppostion seem postively cartoonish. (It also means there are going to be some people on the left who are going to feel burned by him).

There were several shameful moments. . .the boos, the lawmakers toting signs like any nutcase protester at a townhall meeting, the ones waving copies of the bill I assume. But I guess these guys have to pander to their constituents who are drinking the Rush kool-aid. (You have to wonder if all these fans of the Rush, Coulter, Hannity, Beck, have ever stopped to consider that these people being anything other than opposed to Obama is against their financial self-interest. Opposition to him is their business plan, which should make anyone listening to them be skeptical of their reliability).
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:02 PM   #910
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It wasn't the speech for details anyway, and I agree he is being flexible so there aren't enough details to flesh out yet. I guess I meant I'd reserve final judgment for the bill he signs. But I like the direction. A little bit of compromise, but much stronger on the issue than he's shown in public prior to this. He stepped in because he needed to step in and he did it well.

I'm just one of those tedious people who reads the fine print And reads the factcheck the next day.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:28 PM   #911
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If it was indeed a congressman who shouted 'you lie," they should apologize tomorrow. A gross breach of decorum.

However, I remain skeptical on the issue for many reasons:
1) the experience in California with prop 187
2) the figure 45 million, use 30 million if counting only citizens (which I think the president actually did tonight).
3) put language in the bill authorizing verification methods. Something other than, "Are you an American citizen?" "Si."
4) how about one of those triggers voiding the entire bill if illegals do begin to get coverage. Should be no problem if the president is being forthright.

I actually liked much of the speech detailing consumer protections but details, details. Define "affordable." Define "basic coverage" that all American's will be required to purchase. What is the out-of-pocket cap that protects families from bankruptcy? I'm glad the president recognizes the problem, but I'm wary of a Congress (with their eyes on the prize of a single-payer system) piling on the restrictions too thick, driving out insurance companies, lessening industry competition thus laying the groundwork for The Public Option to ride into town on a white horse and save the day.

One last thing on decorum. I watched the Republican response on MSNBC and did anyone else catch the first words out of K Olbermann's mouth when he was done? Mentioned the guy's been sued for malpractice 3 times and called him a birther. Class act Keith. The congressman deserves no less respect than the president.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:39 PM   #912
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generally, it was superb. details, yes, there need to be more, but what was clarion was the moral purpose. how any self-described "Christian" views the sick as impositions on their bank accounts absolutely baffles me. yes, we all want *effective* health insurance and we can debate how to get there, but the response that the status quo, which leaves 40m uninsured at any given point and where the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this country is medical costs, is somehow either acceptable or actually preferable to reform is simply shocking. we have an obligation to ourselves to care for the sick, lest we become one of the sick and need the care of others.






Quote:
the first words out of K Olbermann's mouth when he was done? Mentioned he's been sued for malpractice 3 times and called him a birther. Class act Keith
it's also true.



and way to keep it classy, GOP.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:40 PM   #913
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BTW, Wilson has already apologized. Gotta love the 24 hour news cycle.

As for Keith Olbermann, the lack of respect shown to politicians has sadly been rampant amongst the "pundits" on both sides. It doesn't make it right, but that's what's been happening for years now.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:41 PM   #914
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Nice also to see the president mention malpractice and tort reform, giving Republicans a chance to stretch their legs. But make it part of the bill Mr President, not a project that can be blocked yearly by Democratic majorities for as long as they enjoy that distinction.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:48 PM   #915
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I was busy working tonight (go free market!!) so I didn't get to see more than highlights.

What's with the GOP waving signs or whatever? Are they 10 years old? The guy yelling out was just a disgrace. I'm actually sort of glad that they behaved like this, it really says a lot.

I'll try to see the thing in its entirety as I have it on my PVR.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:53 PM   #916
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i liked this part:

Quote:
Part of the reason I faced a trillion dollar deficit when I walked in the door of the White House is because too many initiatives over the last decade were not paid for – from the Iraq War to tax breaks for the wealthy. I will not make that same mistake with health care.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:02 PM   #917
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If Democrats are going to continue to use the example of Alabama having 85% of all it's policies with just one insurance company to illustrate the lack of competition (as Obama did in his speech tonight); can one person tell me why the Democrats will not support allowing Alabamians to buy insurance from private insurers in another state (which everyone is now restricted from doing) rather then set up this public option as the only recourse. Miss Alabama can insure her legs with Lloyd's of London but she can't buy more affordable health insurance from Georgia? Why, why is this status quo so sacred?

Anyone?
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:05 PM   #918
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i liked this part:
The partisan digs were the low point if you ask me. I thought we were tying to get beyond such things and "work together for the American people."
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:07 PM   #919
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The partisan digs were the low point if you ask me.
Yeah, way worse than some lunatic screaming during a joint session of Congress.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:15 PM   #920
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This isn't aimed at anyone who's posting in this thread, just a general attitude.

Honestly its only those who gain 'strength' in their life from amassing lots of money that could genuinely oppose extending human rights to all, that includes proper education and healthcare. You're born into a lottery, for the most part those who have a lot have had advantages all their lives, but what % chance makes you different from the kid that didn't get any chances? So why are you so high and mighty to not be willing to take even the slightest hit for the benefit of others? Its not to say we shouldn't live in a capitalistic society, people make progress by working for themselves, but we can't be made better by doing things solely for ourselves. It isn't socialist to try and extend decency of life to people, and it isn't business-crushing to have a non-profit option for the 10's of millions who don't have access to health-care otherwise.

It is one thing to oppose the details of a bill(s), and believe me I'm not foolishly agreeing with all of them, but its another to do so simply because you have an ulterior selfish attitude.

My point is that Obama's motivations are sound, even if they way we're aiming to get there isn't just yet. Is there really anyone out there who believes he wants to create a socialist state with willy-nilly abortions and a touchy-feely love fest haven for terrorists? I hope not, I assume that's the scare-tactic angle of the moment, but it would terrify me if those spouting it actually thought that instead of using it as angle to save their pockets a hit.

That's my attitude, I don't rally behind all of his policies, I won't be sheep-herded into the details of all bills that get to the ideals I agree with, but I'm advocating we all work together honestly and with our motivations out on our sleeves. Its my great disappointment in how strong political in-fighting has become that to reach any position of power, even those who advocate bipartisan efforts (like Obama seemingly was a few years) have to tip completely to one side. But as a moderate independent, politics will be even more bafflingly painful to watch for me, as the same pigheadedness takes different forms over and over again.

/rant over.
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