MANDATORY health insurance - Page 37 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-28-2009, 06:41 PM   #721
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Do you support the Government telling people what they can and can't eat, drink or smoke?
Do you support them telling me when to have babies?
__________________

martha is offline  
Old 08-28-2009, 06:42 PM   #722
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Gotta be very selective in which countries you choose for that comparison huh?
Is there a fatter nation than yours?
__________________

anitram is offline  
Old 08-28-2009, 06:44 PM   #723
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:52 AM
No.
martha is offline  
Old 08-28-2009, 07:10 PM   #724
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,738
Local Time: 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Do you support the Government telling people what they can and can't eat, drink or smoke?
What are you even talking about? I've never heard of any government with universal health care ordering people not to eat certain things, drink, or smoke, it's all still an individual choice. But, they do help those who want to be helped.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this nonsense. I'm going back to my usual policy of mentally ignoring you.
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 08-28-2009, 07:39 PM   #725
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Gotta be very selective in which countries you choose for that comparison huh?
Nice dodge...
BVS is offline  
Old 08-28-2009, 07:41 PM   #726
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:52 AM
It's always all about not answering the questions.
martha is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:14 AM   #727
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 04:52 AM
We're fat because we want to be, it really shouldn't concern anyone except the fat fucks. Maybe being skinny is why Japan kills us in the suicide rate race.

If you ignore me this place is just one big Liberal dick suck, and what's the fun in that?


Why are the UK, Australia and NZ to name a few nearly as fat as us? Genetics?
HyperU2 is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:34 AM   #728
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
dick suck, and what's the fun in that?
Well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post
Why are the UK, Australia and NZ to name a few nearly as fat as us? Genetics?
Why are you so bad with numbers?

Obesity statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
BVS is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:58 AM   #729
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 04:52 AM
You know what nearly meant right? They're closer to us than to France.
HyperU2 is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 02:53 AM   #730
ONE
love, blood, life
 
namkcuR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 05:52 AM
Drop the term 'Obamacare'. It makes you sound like you're fucking ten years old. The dream of universal healthcare has been around for decades. Don't use a serious moral issue to take childish stabs at a president you dislike. It cheapens the whole debate, destroys your credibility, and insults people everywhere who need healthcare and don't have it.

I really think people who oppose universal healthcare are totally oblivious to how unfathomably arrogant and selfish their position is. Arrogant because every other Western democracy has universal healthcare and yet the anti-universal-healthcare position says that all of those other Western democracies are wrong, that all of the politicians in all of those governments who enacted, ran, and continue to run those universal healthcare systems, are wrong, and that almighty America would be right to reject any and all such systems. Selfish because the anti-universal-healthcare position is in favor of each person paying for his/her own healthcare and looks down on the idea of everyone chipping in so that those who are less financially fortunate can enjoy the same quality of healthcare as those who are financially fortunate.

And then those who oppose universal healthcare use the most ridiculous arguments.

HEAR THE FOLLOWING ONCE AND FOR ALL:

"DEATH PANEL" IS A PHRASE CREATED BY THE RIGHT TO SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF GULLIBLE AND UNINFORMED CONSERVATIVES AND RIGHT-LEANING INDEPENDENTS. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T DECIDE WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES ANYMORE THAN PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES DO - WHICH IS ALREADY TOO MUCH.

GOVERNMENT WILL NOT PAY FOR HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

GOVERNMENT WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT TO EAT OR DRINK. NOBODY IS GOING TO STOP YOU FROM BUYING A BAG OF CHIPS OR A SIX PACK OF BEER, AND NOBODY IS GOING TO COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND SEARCH IT WITH THE INTENT OF CONFISCATING A BAG OF CHIPS OR A SIX PACK OF BEER SHOULD THEY FIND SUCH THINGS.

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST STEP DOWN THE SLIPPERY SLOPE TO BECOMING THE U.A.S.R.

It would be enough if those who oppose universal healthcare were the only problem, but unfortunately there's also the problem of the Democrats in power who do support universal healthcare. They're too fucking terrified of not getting checks from the private insurance companies come 2010, 2012, and beyond, to really be aggressive and all-out about this. They're still sitting at the table with the private insurance companies. The private insurance companies still get to 'ok' every damn word of the bill. That's terrible. That's why all of this hysterical debate is only over the relatively conservative, very un-radical public option, and not real, true, universal healthcare. The Obama administration wants it that way; there are reports that the more progressive Democrats in congress were told in not so many words to sit down and shut up by the administration, because their input into the bill would have been unapproved-by-private-insurance-companies-single-payer-universal-healthcare. They would rather win with a middle-of-the-road bill then lose while trying to go all the way. And the tragedy is that they're having a hell of a time winning with the middle-of-the-road bill, for two reasons; They suck at framing the debate, explaining in simple but powerful terms why it's necessary, and promoting it, and people are stupid.

Those who don't support universal health care: Get over the arrogance, get over the selfishness, get over the idiotic arguments. Those in power who are spineless and are pushing an inadequate middle-of-the-road bill because you want to appease the private health insurance companies and cash their checks in your next election: Get over the arrogance, get over the selfishness. This is a moral issue that gets to the core of who we are as a nation and who we are as a people. To quote Bill Moyers from tonight's episode of Real Time With Bill Maher - Maher had Moyers on for a special nearly thirty minute one-on-one interview, and it should be required viewing for everyone in this country - in response to Maher asking what the appropriate metaphor for this debate is, "We're all in the same boat". He said that, "We're all in this together", and "I don't want to live in a country where I am on a hospital floor getting an operation that costs $25,000, and two floors above me someone is being denied that same surgery because he or she has no money. What kind of a civilization is that?"

What kind of a civilization is that? Can you answer that? What kind of civilization is it that employs a healthcare system that does more to financially benefit private insurance companies than it does to provide healthcare to every man, woman, and child?

What kind of a civilization is that?
namkcuR is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 09:06 AM   #731
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperU2 View Post

If you ignore me this place is just one big Liberal dick suck, and what's the fun in that?
Just highlighting this one more time, then I'll start ignoring you as well.
martha is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 02:16 PM   #732
Blue Crack Addict
 
daygloeyes2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: No Emily's Allowed
Posts: 26,571
Local Time: 05:52 AM
Excellent post namkcur.
daygloeyes2 is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 09:39 PM   #733
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,892
Local Time: 04:52 AM
I'd like to suggest we take a step back for a moment and consider a key underlying question. Like a lot of high octane issues, there's often an underlying issue that remains unaddressed while we argue past each other. I think that's the case here.

The question is simply this: Do you think everyone should have access to basic and necessary health care, regardless of ability to pay?

Because if you don't think so, then many of the arguments I've heard here make a lot more sense. After all, we would we spend so much money and risk complicating our current healthcare situation further if it's for something that's essentially unnecessary? I know what the the majority of the posters here think, but I'm especially interested in hearing from INDY, Hyper, Bluer White, and any other opponents of health care reform.
maycocksean is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 10:19 PM   #734
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Carlisle PA
Posts: 818
Local Time: 04:52 AM
I'm all for an affordable plan that won't degrade the quality of care.
HyperU2 is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:22 PM   #735
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Tiger Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Everglades
Posts: 4,740
Local Time: 05:52 AM


Don' hit me no mo, a'massah!
Tiger Edge is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:39 PM   #736
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 05:52 AM
I saw Bill Clinton speak today and he commented on the health care issue, summarizing it perfectly by saying something along the lines of "There is a lot of money here that is going somewhere and the somewhere doesn't want to give it up."
anitram is offline  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:41 PM   #737
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
Arrogant because every other Western democracy has universal healthcare and yet the anti-universal-healthcare position says that all of those other Western democracies are wrong, that all of the politicians in all of those governments who enacted, ran, and continue to run those universal healthcare systems, are wrong, and that almighty America would be right to reject any and all such systems.
Except there are people who really do believe that and who are seemingly unable to grasp the simple notion that there are places in the world that do some things as well as the U.S. does and there are even some places in the world that do some things considerably better than the U.S. does. But we've read on these forums, more than once, really patronizing and condescending commentary directed at the rest of the world that really tells you a lot. The worst part is that these people aren't trying to be offensive, they actually truly believe in this form of American exceptionalism. When that informs your positions, you can then see why your line of reasoning in the quoted text is irrelevant to them.
anitram is offline  
Old 08-30-2009, 06:05 AM   #738
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,153
Local Time: 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
The question is simply this: Do you think everyone should have access to basic and necessary health care, regardless of ability to pay?

Because if you don't think so, then many of the arguments I've heard here make a lot more sense. After all, we would we spend so much money and risk complicating our current healthcare situation further if it's for something that's essentially unnecessary? I know what the the majority of the posters here think, but I'm especially interested in hearing from INDY, Hyper, Bluer White, and any other opponents of health care reform.
Well, I'm not an opponent of good health care reform.

I am an opponent of the 1000 page House bill I linked to on page 14 and the specific parts of the bill I outlined. I'd rather discuss details of proposals and their implications. The president has been dishonest in the way he's sold his ideas in regard to choice, costs and rationing. That's being reflected in townhalls and in his own falling poll numbers.

I support many of the ideas from the article written by the Whole Foods CEO on page 19. And in any plan that falls short of insuring everyone, I believe the government should provide a final safety net so that every American can receive necessary care without going bankrupt. That does not mean single-payer, and that's the direction Obamacare takes us.
Bluer White is offline  
Old 08-30-2009, 10:18 AM   #739
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
Man these people are so damn informed, non-racist, and intelligent, what are we to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
That does not mean single-payer, and that's the direction Obamacare takes us.
Because you fear one entity "controlling" everything? Do you honestly think that's not where we are now?
BVS is offline  
Old 08-30-2009, 11:32 AM   #740
Refugee
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,593
Local Time: 05:52 AM
i think we need government reform before healthcare reform
__________________

bigjohn2441 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×