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Old 08-17-2009, 12:53 PM   #321
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:58 PM   #322
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et the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.
And the there's my friend who has a heart condition who couldn't get private insurance because of it.

If she'd only been more careful at her conception and during her fetal development.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:58 PM   #323
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I think that would be true in private hospitals-in places like county hospitals that aren't privately owned, I'm not sure about that.
I've only had experience with privately owned hospitals, the one I worked for was a Catholic hospital.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:09 PM   #324
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Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.

Sick In America -- John Stossel


I'd recommend watching all 6 segments but this one is about insurance.
But what if the insurance company won't ALLOW you to buy the coverage that fits your lifestyle? What if they won't allow you to buy any sort of coverage at all? That's what I mean by giving the patients real power. It's like going into a store and saying, I'd like to buy that and the store says--"Nope, we won't sell that to you." This is what I'd like to see addressed.

I'll watch the videos on my lunch.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:32 PM   #325
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If it's free do you think the lines will be longer or shorter?
The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.

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Can't give you more power or choices than letting you keep more of your money (tax code reform, HSA's), letting you purchase the type of coverage that fits your lifestyle, thus let the private sector respond with reforms that have to survive in the competitive world of markets.
But this isn't how it works!!! You've been shown this time and time again and you choose to gloss over it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Do you still wonder why the words "misled" or "misinformed" are used so much?
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:36 PM   #326
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The only way emergency rooms will change is if more effort is put into preventative care, if you give people access to doctors, they will not have to wait till the problem becomes an emergency, this will be the only way emergency rooms change.


Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:39 PM   #327
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Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
What?
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:44 PM   #328
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The videos were interesting. The first one, in particular was compelling. I like the idea of my employer putting funds into an HSA.

What about those who are self-employed? I assume they would just make their own HSA?

The second video really revealed Stoessel as an idealogue though, which makes me skeptical. It might interest you to know that I'm not a fan of Michael Moore for exactly the same reason. I haven't watched any of his recent films because you always get the sense with him that you're not getting the whole story, you're only getting the side he wants you to see. I got that same sense with Stoessel in the second video as well.

The profit motive can easily become greed, and when greed takes over especially in the arena of health care, people can really get hurt. The government does a poor job because of the lack of profit motive, but the private sector does a poor job as well when the profit motive outstripts the a commitment to doing the job it's supposed to do. When making money becomes more important than providing the service, we have a problem.

And the thing is your big corporations (insurance and otherwise) don't actually want competition. . .don't forget that. Competition is great for the customer. Not so much for the company. Businesses engage in competitive pricing and such when they have to, but if they can avoid it they will. It would be interesting to note what the lobbyists for the healthcare industry are advocating in this ongoing debate. Whatever it is, you can be sure it is a position that reduces competition not increases it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM   #329
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HSA's are great for young, healthy people. If you don't fit in that category, they suck.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM   #330
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.
You socialist immoral bastard.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:59 PM   #331
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it just boggles my Canadian mind that you will allow your government to remove your personal freedoms to "protect" you from terrorists, completely leave your economy to spiral into a cluster fuck of unprecedented greed and mismanagement, inoculate you with god knows what to "protect" you from Swine Flu and other coming plagues and pretty much destroy your country’s foreign policy through war and posturing but when it comes to health care - they apparently have gone too far.

my effete, liberal, elitist, northeastern-corridor, urban American mind as well.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:01 PM   #332
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What?

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Hour_Emergency_Target
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #333
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Yes, I'm aware of the goal, I'm just not sure why you think a focus on preventative health wouldn't change that.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #334
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Yes, I'm aware of the goal, I'm just not sure why you think a focus on preventative health wouldn't change that.
Well it seems that the UK already has a focus on preventative measures, as well as access to primary care physicians. Yet they still enjoy the same waiting time as we do.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #335
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Doesn't really help that 4 hour window that is the goal in the UK though.
We have that problem here, as well, to a certain degree. There are certain factors to keep in mind, though.

1) Our ERs operate on a triage system, where you're seen in order of priority. Everyone is assessed within a few minutes of arriving. So, if there are people coming in with life threatening conditions, they'll be seen immediately, people with the sniffles may have to wait.

2) For people with the sniffles, in addition to their primary care physicians (or instead of, in the case of people who don't have GPs), we also have after hours clinics they could go to that are more appropriate for treating minor things than the ER is.

3) I don't have a great deal of sympathy for people who go to the ER at 11 pm for a cold they've had for several days, and then find that they have to wait.

4) Much of the wait times are seasonal, having to do with levels of colds/flus in the community. Or, if there's a high level of traffic accidents on a given day/evening, they get behind as well.

All that said, my mom has to go to the ER when she has a chest cold, due to an underlying heart condition, because her GP's office and walk in clinics just don't have the testing equipment available to tell the difference between the two conditions. She is ALWAYS seen immediately.

5) Is the trade-off of having to wait a few hours for minor illnesses to be treated worth knowing that all people in this country are on a level playing field regarding the care that they receive, and that it's free, with no one being left out or financially devastated? Absolutely.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:13 PM   #336
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5) Is the trade-off of having to wait a few hours for minor illnesses to be treated worth knowing that all people in this country are on a level playing field regarding the care that they receive, and that it's free, with no one being left out or financially devastated? Absolutely.
Socialist.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #337
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Well it seems that the UK already has a focus on preventative measures, as well as access to primary care physicians. Yet they still enjoy the same waiting time as we do.
From my understanding their wait times are due to different factors. It's not due to a lot of people who are going in because they've let their diabetes go unchecked or they haven't had a physical in years.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:30 PM   #338
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Socialist.
Why do people fear that word so much? I bet that 90% of people don't even know what it really means.


Another thing I've been thinking of the past few days - it seems that relatively high numbers (60-something percent, I think I read) of people who were polled say that they're satisfied with their current health insurance.

Well, it's easy to be satisfied with co-pays, jumping through hoops for insurance companies, bureaucratic bs when that's the only system you know. If they only knew the ease of our system, how we don't have to spend even a second thinking of these things while enjoying a very high quality of care, I'm sure they'd change their tune.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:52 PM   #339
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On a personal level almost totally unrelated to this, I just got a call to interview at a rehab hospital I'd lovvve to end up working for.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:29 PM   #340
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On a personal level almost totally unrelated to this, I just got a call to interview at a rehab hospital I'd lovvve to end up working for.
Good luck!
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