Last Words (Kinda).

[Achtung Bubba]

I'm heading out of the forum for a while, to simply focus more on real life. I'm about to post my official last post (for the time being) in Everything You Know Is Wrong, but I'd like to take a moment to share a few words of wisdom:

80sU2isBest, Lemonite, Diamond:

We are fighting for the right reasons. Frankly, if I had all the free time in the world, I would continue to debate tooth-and-nail over these issues and continue to obliterate the opposition. But I don't, and I'm not going to urge you to continue arguing in my place even if you also find something better to do with your time.

Honestly, it hasn't been the most conducive of circumstances for generating a civil, measured debate:

The opposition has greater numbers. We are outnumbered - though I would dare say never outgunned.

The opposition defends the easier side, generally. It's usually easier on one's own conscience to say that there is no definitive truth, and that people who are simply "good enough" will be allowed into the presence of the Almighty. It's far, far easier to support such notions as "as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, it's okay," and "the rich should pay their fair share." It feels better to believe such things, though I daresay that such notions are nowhere near the right positions to take.

And the opposition has two sets of rules, one for them and one for us:

- They can call us Nazis without any evidence; we cannot suggest their ideas lead to Communism, even if it can be shown that they do.

- They can criticize us for being too vague OR for being too specific: "trying to convince that you are right has become more important in here then trying to find out what the exact truth might be." We can make no criticism whatsoever and not be called a "bully".

- They can present so-called self-evident arguments for their claims, but no amount of evidence that supports our claims is apparently enough.

But look on the bright side:

WE are right.

We are the ones supporting the political freedom guaranteed by the Constitution, the economic freedom of capitalism, and the spiritual freedom of religious pluaralism.

And, 80sU2isBest, we are the ones defending a God who is both great and good, just and merciful.


Everyone else:

I would ask you to not take the majority opinion in this forum at face value. Investigate our founding documents and the Word of God on your own.

But more than that, a lot of you claim to have a problem with me personally - much the way liberals targeted Newt Gingrich (and Clarence Thomas before him, Rush Limbaugh before Thomas, and President Reagan before Rush). The implication was everything would be fine once Gingrich left. And yet... we have the case of Henry Hyde, and now John Ashcroft.

I suspect that the same may hold true here, that you will villify whoever is most daringly defending his conservative beliefs.

I'm going for now, so prove me wrong.

Debate the issues, remain honest and consistent in your complaints, and don't resort to petty name-calling.

Show my ideological brothers the common courtesy you refused to show me.

With that, I leave you.

I shall return.

[z edge]

I'm glad you are taking my advice and giving yourself a break.

I agree with you about 70% of the time, I think.

Enjoy yourself, see you when you return

[80sU2isBest]

Achtung, have a good break. It's been good having you on our side. I look forward to your return. We'll keep the home fires burning for you.

[z edge]

*wonders if Melon will suddenly reappear now*

[melon]

My God...this wins the award for the most self-righteous and conceited post of all time.

"We are right." ROTFLMAO I guess they have never taught modesty at the proverbial "Rush Limbaugh School of Conspiracy"? And, once again, this thread reeks of Rushisms, most laughably in how you paste yourself and your fellow conservatives in the same brush as the long-suffering, Biblical Job--the same tactic Rush has used from the beginning, despite the fact it would be very far-fetched to classify him as a literary underdog.

As you might have expected, I've caught on to your little game a long time ago:

--Dominate your enemies. If you can't tackle them, then resort to personal attacks and issues of "distortion" to side-track the conversation that you can't argue, saving face. Hopefully, you'll confuse and exhaust your opponent into shutting up, henceforth with you winning the argument by default.

--If your argument doesn't make much sense, paint your opponent as not making any sense.

--When you're done bullying the forum, paint yourself as the ultimate victim; and paint those you attacked as the "oppressors."

Nice try, Bubba, but in reading all of your comments since September 11th in this forum and others, you are HARDLY a victim. And when you come back, I'll be waiting to take on your issues just as much as I always have.

Have a good vacation from the forum.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[melon]

Originally posted by z edge:
*wonders if Melon will suddenly reappear now*

People tend to forward me links via IM or e-mail...lol.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by melon:
--Dominate your enemies. If you can't tackle them, then resort to personal attacks and issues of "distortion" to side-track the conversation that you can't argue, saving face. Hopefully, you'll confuse and exhaust your opponent into shutting up, henceforth with you winning the argument by default.

Melon, how can you say this about Achtung after seeing the way he was eviscerated in the Rush Limbaugh thread? All I saw were a bunch of people who refused to argue the facts with Achtung, but instead resorted to personal attacks upon him. The only time he used insults was when he was attacked first.

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by melon:
My God...this wins the award for the most self-righteous and conceited post of all time.


Melon

Hahaha... I would venture a bet that the millions of 'posters' who create threads titled 'My 300th Post'.. Would take that prize.

It's just that a conservative created this thread. Hahaha... Sadly.. That might be true.

It's nice to see that the venom and acid never leaves your tongue.

L.Unplugged


[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-22-2002).]

[Lemonite]

Bubba,

Don't think Rush will be lashed and lambasted in your absence, The Patriotism Police and Protectors of Democracy will remain.

A possibility the HORROR will make an encore appearance out of somewheres.

Godspeed,
L.Unplugged

[Salome]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
All I saw were a bunch of people who refused to argue the facts with Achtung, but instead resorted to personal attacks upon him.

I don't think many people in that thread refused anything

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

[melon]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Hahaha... I would venture a bet that the millions of 'posters' who create threads titled 'My 300th Post'.. Would take that prize.

See, Lemonite, threads like that are supposed to be silly. Nor do they ever come off saying "WE ARE RIGHT."

Get your eyes checked.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[Anthony]

Fellow Liberals; lend me your ears! I come not to praise Modesty but to bury it...
WE ARE RIGHT.

Ant.

[melon]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Melon, how can you say this about Achtung after seeing the way he was eviscerated in the Rush Limbaugh thread? All I saw were a bunch of people who refused to argue the facts with Achtung, but instead resorted to personal attacks upon him. The only time he used insults was when he was attacked first.

80s, you know I do respect what you have to say, mostly due to the way you say it: tactfully and open for discussion.

Bubba, with all of his arguments, is certainly not a victim. How many times have I read such histrionics as "terrorist sympathizer" in regards to critics of the war on terrorism? Certainly comments like this don't lead to open discussions, and are simply uncalled for in professional debate. Or the fact that, when backed in a corner arguments-wise, he has gone as far to call me a whole range of names unprovoked? I'm sorry, but he is undeserving of any mercy from me, considering he has been defiantly against apologizing for any of this.

You know perfectly well that I am not merciless in this forum to everyone. I have apologized when due, and continually wish to understand the points-of-view of the other side. I'm more conservative than many of you would like to think, but, in this forum, I'm continually backed in a corner to come off as the quintessential liberal. If human rights is a "liberal" issue, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Ironically enough, on another web forum, I'm derided as a conservative. But when I constantly see belligerent statements like "WE are right" that obviously serve to stir up trouble or read statements like, "The end result is that I would like to meet the guy personally, so I bash his skull in" (in reference to his comment on chain in the Rush thread), not to mention the entire chain diversion post that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and then have the audacity to paint himself as a victim, tell me why I should even remotely retract anything that I stated?

This entire thread is an embarrassment to all conservatism, just as bombastic and self-righteous as it gets. I certainly know well enough to know that not all conservatives are this way, and I even have an admiration for "true" fiscal conservatism.

"And, 80sU2isBest, we are the ones defending a God who is both great and good, just and merciful."

That gets about as blasphemous as it gets, a comment I would expect directly from a Biblical Pharisee. Do you picture Jesus Christ Himself ever making a statement such as this? You may never totally agree with me, but I really hope that you do not agree with this topic in any form. You have shown yourself to be smarter than this.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[S|aney]

Originally posted by melon:
My God...this wins the award for the most self-righteous and conceited post of all time.

"We are right." ROTFLMAO I guess they have never taught modesty at the proverbial "Rush Limbaugh School of Conspiracy"? And, once again, this thread reeks of Rushisms, most laughably in how you paste yourself and your fellow conservatives in the same brush as the long-suffering, Biblical Job--the same tactic Rush has used from the beginning, despite the fact it would be very far-fetched to classify him as a literary underdog.

As you might have expected, I've caught on to your little game a long time ago:

--Dominate your enemies. If you can't tackle them, then resort to personal attacks and issues of "distortion" to side-track the conversation that you can't argue, saving face. Hopefully, you'll confuse and exhaust your opponent into shutting up, henceforth with you winning the argument by default.

--If your argument doesn't make much sense, paint your opponent as not making any sense.

--When you're done bullying the forum, paint yourself as the ultimate victim; and paint those you attacked as the "oppressors."

Nice try, Bubba, but in reading all of your comments since September 11th in this forum and others, you are HARDLY a victim. And when you come back, I'll be waiting to take on your issues just as much as I always have.

Have a good vacation from the forum.

Melon

You're not alone in your thinking melon. Thanks for always fighting the good fight.

[Sicy]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
A possibility the HORROR will make an encore appearance out of somewheres.

Are you in love with the HORROR or something?
He's gone, done, kaput.. your mating calls wont work, sorry.

[Salome]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
- They can criticize us for being too vague OR for being too specific: "trying to convince that you are right has become more important in here then trying to find out what the exact truth might be." We can make no criticism whatsoever and not be called a "bully".

so, I have been promoted to 'the opposition' now

very good

still, I'd like to point out (because I don't like your interpretation of the truth) that my statement wasn't directed at all conservatives, nor was it directed at a couple of conservatives, frankly not even at 2 conservatives

it was solely directed at you Bubba


have a nice vacation

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

[This message has been edited by Salome (edited 03-22-2002).]

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by S|aney:
You're not alone in your thinking melon. Thanks for always fighting the good fight.

Due to your immensely long posts and pages of opinions on various issues, It's also nice to know that you are more than a Cheerleader.

L.Unplugged

[Anthony]

Are we fighting the good fight? I wasn't aware we were fighting a fight to begin with... let alone call it THE good fight.

Oh well. All I'm saying is that all of these moral implications are tedious as they are patronising. Comments such as the 'good fight' are as silly as 'defending a just and merciful God'. I wish people just stuck to their arguments, without having the urge to inject morality in order to appease the vein of self-importance.

Ant.


[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 03-22-2002).]

[Mr. MacPhisto]

For f*cks sake
stop arguing.

^-^

[z edge]

Originally posted by melon:
People tend to forward me links via IM or e-mail...lol.

Melon

Oh Melon, how I wish I had your email addy sometimes My 30% liberal self just dosen't know what to do with my 70% republican self about-well, 30% of the time

I predicted your re-emergence right on time!