Ladies and Gentlemen: This is our Attorney General?
- Thread starter Diemen
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Lilly
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I'm not really too informed about John Ashcroft...someone wanna fill me in a bit?
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*Proud owner, maker, and baker of THE U2 cookies*
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*Proud owner, maker, and baker of THE U2 cookies*
Gina Marie
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
OMG-that was too much.
Actually, his voice isn't half bad
, but why the heck was he singing after a speech?
Isn't there a singing group comprised of Senators?
*dreams of the day Bush croons*
Actually, his voice isn't half bad
Isn't there a singing group comprised of Senators?
*dreams of the day Bush croons*
FizzingWhizzbees
ONE love, blood, life
(I'm openly stating that I disagree with Ashcroft's politics so this post is not going to be overhwelmingly positive about the man. However, I'll give some of my thoughts anyway.)
He's a very right-wing, conservative Republican. He's anti-choice, opposes gun control, opposes affirmative action, opposes gay rights, is in favour of the death penalty. Basically everything you would expect from a very conservative politician.
He's strongly anti-choice on abortion - he even opposes abortion in the case of rape or incest and he also believes that 'life begins at conception' which implies he disagrees with the use of birth control pills and emergency contraception.
During his confirmation hearings there were allegations of racism against him. While he was governor of Missouri he blocked the appointment of a black judge, and he's made some comments in praise of those who fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War. He also fought against a voter registration campaign in St Louis which coincidentally has a large black and traditionally Democrat-voting population.
While he was governor of Missouri, 7 people were executed in his state. He voted in favour of restricting people's access to appeal against a death sentence. Also he's in favour of extending the "war against drugs" and he wants stronger sentencing for those convicted of drug-related offences.
On the environment, he's in favour of allowing oil companies to drill for oil in Alaska. On defence, foreign policy, he's in favour of high military spending, and opposed to high foreign aid budgets.
Gun control, he's in favour of allowing people to carry concealed weapons, he's against any kind of background check including at gun shows.
And I'll be quiet now because there is a lot more I would like to say about Ashcroft, but I'm sure there are people who support him and would like to have their say too.
He's a very right-wing, conservative Republican. He's anti-choice, opposes gun control, opposes affirmative action, opposes gay rights, is in favour of the death penalty. Basically everything you would expect from a very conservative politician.
He's strongly anti-choice on abortion - he even opposes abortion in the case of rape or incest and he also believes that 'life begins at conception' which implies he disagrees with the use of birth control pills and emergency contraception.
During his confirmation hearings there were allegations of racism against him. While he was governor of Missouri he blocked the appointment of a black judge, and he's made some comments in praise of those who fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War. He also fought against a voter registration campaign in St Louis which coincidentally has a large black and traditionally Democrat-voting population.
While he was governor of Missouri, 7 people were executed in his state. He voted in favour of restricting people's access to appeal against a death sentence. Also he's in favour of extending the "war against drugs" and he wants stronger sentencing for those convicted of drug-related offences.
On the environment, he's in favour of allowing oil companies to drill for oil in Alaska. On defence, foreign policy, he's in favour of high military spending, and opposed to high foreign aid budgets.
Gun control, he's in favour of allowing people to carry concealed weapons, he's against any kind of background check including at gun shows.
And I'll be quiet now because there is a lot more I would like to say about Ashcroft, but I'm sure there are people who support him and would like to have their say too.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
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OMG Diemen, that made my day, in a perverse kind of way. And that is the only thing I find funny about him. I certainly can't say "he should stick to his day job" either.
Right on, Fizzing.
Right on, Fizzing.
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
Hahahahhaha.. Dieman was just making a joke about him singing, which wasn't all that bad.. better than I could do..
Anyways, Yah, I love this charge of racism against him... That was all big and bad, the Liberals were having there way, until It was revealed that AshCroft had a large number of Blacks working under him in his cabinet, or office... Hahaha.. Some Racist.
That's about as disgusting an allegation as the shit swirling about Judge Pickering.
Anyways, Now that we're talking about his policies/character.. Wasn't he the man who was beaten by a Dead Official in his election race.. And He didn't say a word... Did not complain one bit.. Hmmm.. I say he's got quite a bit more character and class than many people we know... I will refrain from making an inflammatory 'had he been a liberal' statement here, because it won't get us anywheres.
Anyways, Dieman.. Yah.. I saw the tape on D. Letterman, It was funny.
L.Unplugged
U2live
The Fly
Asscroft is from another planet, and should never be in government, he has way overstepped the boundaries, and he is just plain a weirdo. He stopped Oregon from having what they voted on, assisted suicide for terminally ill, he'd rather people suffer. He had the statues in the Justice Dept. covered up because they were "nude."
TylerDurden
War Child
I read an article about him the other day. He does seem to have a few screws loose. Can't believe he really covered those statues up.
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
And how many states have 'assisted murder' legalized in this country...
Ohh.. allow me to rephrase.. How many Countries in this Universe have 'assisted murder' legalized?
L.Unplugged
Achtung Bubba
Refugee
A few things of interest:
* Note that Ashcroft is "anti-choice, opposes gun control, opposes affirmative action," instead of "pro-life, defends the second amendment, and doesn't believe that once race should be favored over another."
* Apparently "he also believes that 'life begins at conception' which implies he disagrees with the use of birth control pills and emergency contraception." First, birth control pills prevent conception from the beginning, so believing that life begins at conception DOESN'T imply opposition to birth control pills. Second, "emergency contraception" is a euphamism for abortion - preventing pregnancy after the fact.
* He's a conservative Republican; I'd be surprised if allegations of racism WEREN'T levelled at him. By the way, opposing a black judge doesn't make you a racist, since you can have GENUINE reasons to oppose him. Acknowledging that Confederate troops weren't the scum of the earth also isn't racism. And resisting a voter registration campaign in a heavily Democratic area doesn't make you a racist - it makes you a politically savvy Republican.
* In terms of gun control, I haven't heard he's against all background checks; if he genuinely is, then I have reason to disagree with him on that point.
* Finally, you gave a list of reasons to hate the guy:
While he was governor of Missouri, 7 people were executed in his state. He voted in favour of restricting people's access to appeal against a death sentence. Also he's in favour of extending the "war against drugs" and he wants stronger sentencing for those convicted of drug-related offences.
On the environment, he's in favour of allowing oil companies to drill for oil in Alaska. On defence, foreign policy, he's in favour of high military spending, and opposed to high foreign aid budgets.
Well, I have my reasons to like the guy:
When he was governor of Missouri, seven convicted killers were made incapable of killing again. He's in favor of limiting the amount of times a killer can appeal his sentence, limiting it to something more reasonable, allowing the victim's family the chance to move on. He's in favor of severely punishing those who traffic large amounts of illegal and dangerous drugs to America's children and teenagers.
On the issue of energy, he believes that America is entirely too dependent on ambivalent states for our supply of oil. And on foreign policy, he supports that bit in the Constitution that says the government should "ensure domestic tranquilty, provide for the common defense."
Achtung Bubba
Refugee
And I can't believe the press keeps taking pictures of the attorney general with that statue in the background.
I mean, they didn't take any pictures like that from 1993 to 2000. Why would they start back now?
FizzingWhizzbees
ONE love, blood, life
I know - and I did acknowledge that I don't agree with Ashcroft's politics so if you're looking for someone to give a positive description of him then it's not going to be me. However - I say anti-choice because I believe that to describe those who oppose abortion as 'pro-life' implies that those who support a women's right to choose are pro-abortion. That's simply not the case - to be pro-choice does not mean you believe abortion is a solution to every unplanned pregnancy, it just means you believe that women should be trusted to make their own decisions about abortion - all options should be available to them and they should be free to make their own choices about what happens to their bodies.
I don't hate him. I strongly disagree with his politics but that's not a personal dislike of him.
I'll finish writing this later because I have a lot more to say but I'm busy right now.
Spiral_Staircase
War Child
Agreed. This is amazingly funny. I can't believe it's even real. But do take into account that this was not a state speech. It's not like he broke into song at the end of a White House press conference. He was speaking at a seminary. I gotta give the guy some credit too. All politics aside, it's a pretty ballzy move for someone in his position to stand up and do that. His voice isn't that bad, and he wrote the song himself. Sounds like he's a couple steps ahead of some our friends on the teeny-pop circuit.
80sU2isBest
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
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I certainly would like to have my say. First, I think he's got a good singing voice. And it's funny that some liberals question the appropriateness of him singing a patriotic song he wrote, when the very same liberals were saying "way cool!" when Clinton blew his horn on Leno's show.
Secondly, he blocked the appointment of a black judge - so freaking what. The judge has to be of some ethnicity; white, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. It just so happened that the guy's skin happened to be black. That was not the reason he was blocked. If the man was Italian, would you be screaming racism?
And as far as you disliking the guy because he made some comments "in praise of those who fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War", that maybe one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on this forum. There were many good men who fought on the Confederate side. Did you know, for instance, that General Robert E. Lee had no slaves in the Civil War, and only fought for the North because of his loyalty to his state of Virginia? Of course you didn't know; you were too busy assuming that just because he thinks highly of some of the Confederates that that meant he must be a racist.
And since when is wanting stronger punishment for drug related offenses a bad thing?
Ditto for higher military spending. Believe me, I know 3 people very closely that served in the military when Clinton was reigning. Morale was low, not only because the troops didn't want to fight for a man who had once protested the Vietnam War while on Russian soil, but also because he refused to spend the money to give them what they needed to do their jobs to their best level.
CannibalisticArtist
War Child
hahaha, he sounds so fruity. "let the eagle soooooooaarrrrrrr" LOL goood entertainment.
hotasahandbag
The Fly
back to the topic at hand, thanks diemen. that was hilarious, and confirms what i've alway suspected; washington really is the retirement community for cheesy lounge singers.
The number of states that have legalized the death penalty.
Melon
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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
OP
OP
You know, I am really getting sick of every damn thing in this forum being turned into a liberal vs. conservative thing. It's pathetic that the only points can be made here is by pinning it to one side or the other and then bashing the opposite side.
If you paid attention to my first three words in the first post, you would notice that my reason for posting this has absolutely nothing to do with what political party Ashcroft is affiliated with. If Bill Clinton or Janet Reno or Al Gore or Newt Gingrich sang a song that cheesy after a speech, it'd creep me out just as much as Ashcroft singing it.
All politics aside, the song and it's performance is cheesy. Patriotic, yes, but cheesy.
Once again:
All
Politics
Aside
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
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If someone I admired politically did something this cheesy, I could both admire them politically AND say, "Geesh, that was so cheesy it's embarrassing." Some of you just have no sense of humor about the politicians you admire.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
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Diemen, we posted at the same time, but that is exactly what I was getting at.
And why is "liberals" so often spit out on these pages with the kind of revulsion I reserve for bestiality or mud wrestling.
And why is "liberals" so often spit out on these pages with the kind of revulsion I reserve for bestiality or mud wrestling.
sulawesigirl4
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
can't we all just get along???
I love our "pro-life" / "pro-death" hypocrites.
Essentially, he's limiting the due process guaranteed in the Constitution, the only protections against putting an innocent man to death. If I remember right, does Jesus not say in the Bible that it is better for ten guilty men to go free than for one innocent person to be wrongly imprisoned?
Question:
When Ashcroft wanted stronger sentencing for those "convicted of drug-related offences," was that for just dealers or also users? If it was for users, then I'm verily disappointed. "Imprisonment" isn't going to do anything to solve the drug problem.
As for dealers, yes, imprisonment is a positive option, although Tim Allen, comedian and star of "Home Improvement," would have received a life sentence without parole had these laws been in effect then. I think there needs to be more sentencing applicable to the offender, rather than the crime. Some can be rehabilatated, and should, but some obviously cannot be.
Our only viable option is conversion to hydrogen fuel and increased fuel conservation standards in the meantime. SUVs do NOT need to consume as much gas as they do.
"Drilling" in Alaska requires at least 10 years of exploration before the actual drilling. By that time, with as much progress that has already been made with hydrogen fuel-cell technology (BMW made a working prototype that cruises at 150 mph), we can finally rid ourselves of the shackles of oil and OPEC. Hydrogen fuel can easily be extracted from water, which could even mean extracting the humidity from the air.
The oil that will be needed in other applications, aside from automobiles, can likely be extracted and be more than sufficient with existing American oil sites.
Bush has pledged a conversion to fuel-cell technology, so let's now hope he was serious and just not spouting more inane rhetoric he has no intentions of fulfilling.
Melon
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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
[This message has been edited by melon (edited 03-07-2002).]
speedracer
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Melon, this is a meatball, and you know it.
In exactly one of these cases, the entity whose life is being terminated has been found guilty, in a court of law, of some heinous crime. This is not to say that there aren't other issues with abortion and the death penalty that need to be addressed in a reasonable debate, but a fetus and a convicted criminal are clearly not on the same footing here.
[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 03-07-2002).]
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
We're talking about Kervorkian related issues, not the death penalty.
L.Unplugged
And, in a court of law (Roe v. Wade, 1973 (?)), it was found that a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy, hence nullifying any claims that the unborn are worthy of legal protection. Hence, under law, an unborn child is just as protected under the law as a death-row inmate: very little.
We can't start playing subjective law games. I'm "pro-life" in every sense of it. I'm anti-abortion and anti-death penalty. To me, along with the position of my church, anyone who claims to be "pro-life" and "pro-death penalty" is a hypocrite.
All people are worthy of life, but that doesn't mean we need to let these dangerous people go free. Life in prison without chance of parole is more than sufficient to contain these people from hurting anyone ever again. And don't talk about "wasting taxpayer money," because we've done plenty of that imprisoning drug users and the mentally ill (thank you, Reagan
Melon
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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
[This message has been edited by melon (edited 03-07-2002).]
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
Yes, and every Government official who was against Supreme Ct. Justice Clarence Thomas are Racists as well.
L.Unplugged
I see no difference between the two in terms of morality. Ashcroft, however, seems to decide who is worthy of life and death. How godly of him.
Melon
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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
Blame it all on the vomit Shat upon the computer screen by Fizzing.
L.Unplugged
[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-07-2002).]
80sU2isBest
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
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Diemen, get off your high horse. I know darned well that you said "all politics aside". I wasn't responding to you, and that should be evident by the fact that it wasn't YOU I quoted! The person I quoted was teh one who started the partisanship, taking a couple of stabs at Conservative Republicans. Am I not allowed to fight back?
Achtung Bubba
Refugee
It was a minor complaint, and not even one directed at you personally. It's just, honestly, I think the language of politics has been skewed in support of one side of the issue: on the surface, "gun control" and "campaign finance reform" (to use a phrase you personally haven't used) are things that everyone should support, and to a degree, most do: many in the NRA believe that criminals shouldn't have guns, and most how oppose the Shays-Meehan bill support changes of some kind.
But when phrases like "gun control" are used for specific plans, it makes those who oppose those plans (sometimes for good reason) appear to be inherently on the wrong side of the issue.
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