Karl Rove, Worse Than Osama

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MrsSpringsteen

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Was he the leaker? Will he get in trouble?

They are still asking that Copper testify even though Time turned over the e-mails, notes, etc

I don't know who this Ted Rall is. Gee as far as I know Karl Rove isn't a terrorist..not that I don't think he's evil :D

KARL ROVE: WORSE THAN OSAMA BIN LADEN

By Ted Rall Mon Jul 4

NEW YORK--In war collaborators are more dangerous than enemy forces, for they betray with intimate knowledge in painful detail and demoralize by their cynical example. This explains why, at the end of occupations, the newly liberated exact vengeance upon their treasonous countrymen even they allow foreign troops to conduct an orderly withdrawal.

If, as state-controlled media insists, there is such a creature as a Global War on Terrorism, our enemies are underground Islamist organizations allied with or ideologically similar to those that attacked us on 9/11. But who are the collaborators?

The right points to critics like Michael Moore, yours truly, and Ward Churchill, the Colorado professor who points out the gaping chasm between America's high-falooting rhetoric and its historical record. But these bête noires are guilty only of the all-American actions of criticism and dissent, not to mention speaking uncomfortable truths to liars and deniers. As far as we know, no one on what passes for the "left" (which would be the center-right anywhere else) has betrayed the United States in the GWOT. No anti-Bush progressive has made common cause with Al Qaeda, Hamas, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan or any other officially designated "terrorist" group. No American liberal has handed over classified information or worked to undermine the CIA.

But it now appears that Karl Rove, GOP golden boy, has done exactly that.

Last week Time magazine turned over its reporter's notes to a special prosecutor assigned to learn who told Republican columnist Bob Novak that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent. The revelation, which effectively ended Plame's CIA career and may have endangered her life, followed her husband Joe Wilson's publication of a New York Times op-ed piece that embarrassed the Bush Administration by debunking its claims that Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium from Niger. Time's cowardly decision to break its promise to a confidential source has had one beneficial side effect: according to Newsweek, it indicates that Karl Rove himself made the call to Novak.

One might have expected Rove, the master White House political strategist who engineered Bush's 2000 coup d'état and post-9/11 permanent war public relations campaign, to have ordered a flunky underling to carry out this act of high treason. But as the Arab saying goes, arrogance diminishes wisdom.

Rove, whose gaping maw recently vomited forth that Democrats didn't care about 9/11, is atypically silent. He did talk to the Time reporter but "never knowingly disclosed classified information," claims his attorney. But there's circumstantial evidence to go along with Time's leaked notes. Ari Fleischer abruptly resigned as Bush's press secretary on May 16, 2003, about the same time the White House became aware of Ambassador Wilson's plans to go public. (Wilson's article appeared July 6.) Did Fleischer quit because he didn't want to act as spokesman for Rove's plan to betray CIA agent Plame? Another interesting coincidence: Novak published his Plame column on July 14, Fleischer's last day on the job.

If Newsweek's report is accurate, Karl Rove is more morally repugnant and more anti-American than Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden, after all, has no affiliation with, and therefore no presumed loyalty to, the United States. Rove, on the other hand, is a U.S. citizen and, as deputy White House chief of staff, a high-ranking official of the U.S. government sworn to uphold and defend our nation, its laws and its interests. Yet he sold out America just to get even with Joe Wilson.

Osama bin Laden, conversely, is loyal to his cause. He has never exposed an Al Qaeda agent's identity to the media.

"[Knowingly revealing Plame's name and undercover status to the media]...is a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act and is punishable by as much as ten years in prison," notes the Washington Post. Unmasking an intelligent agent during a time of war, however, surely rises to giving aid and comfort to America's enemies--treason. Treason is punishable by execution under the United States Code.

How far up the White House food chain does the rot of treason go? "Bush has always known how to keep Rove in his place," wrote Time in 2002 about a "symbiotic relationship" that dates to 1973. This isn't some rogue "plumbers" operation. Rove would never go it alone on a high-stakes action like Valerie Plame. It's a safe bet that other, higher-ranking figures in the Bush cabal--almost certainly Dick Cheney and possibly Bush himself--signed off before Rove called Novak. For the sake of national security, those involved should be removed from office at once.

Rove and his collaborators should quickly resign and face prosecution for betraying their country, but given their sense of personal entitlement impeachment is probably the best we can hope for. Congress, and all Americans, should place patriotism ahead of party loyalty.
 
The article isn't stating that Karl Rove is a terrorist. Merely that he committed high treason for exposing undercover operatives knowingly to the media in a time of war. And I'd have to agree, if it's the case.

Internal enemies are always worse than external enemies.

It's like that old analogy from Armageddon (the movie):

"You lay a firecracker on the palm of your hand, and it goes off. You burn yourself. Nothing major. But...you close your hand around that firecracker...and your wife is going to be opening your ketchup bottles for you for the rest of your life."
 
yeah,

they were never FLUSHED

just pissed on and thrown at toilets

those terrorist bastards should have English as their FIRST language, like us and Jesus
 
If Rove is the snitch, he needs to go to prison - for a very long time.
 
80sU2isBest said:
If Rove is the snitch, he needs to go to prison - for a very long time.

Yep. Rove or not, 'treason' or not, it was a fucking dangerous thing to do, and to do it simply out of spite of all things....

Somehow I suspect that if it is Rove....
 
nbcrusader said:



Rove also flushed Korans down the toilet....

And we all know one shouldn't desecrate things millions hold sacred. Unless it has a stars and stripes.....
 
Karl Rove made a call to Novak but not the call. I think that it is good that treason season is on, Rall may get a bit right back at him considering his fever pitch style.

tedrall.gif
 
cardosino said:


And we all know one shouldn't desecrate things millions hold sacred. Unless it has a stars and stripes.....



i should just ignore this, but it's so out of line that i can't.

a flag is a symbol of a COUNTRY. countries are never sacred. and simply because it's disrespectful to burn a flag, that doesn't mean it should be illegal, and if, say, iraqi insurgents were holding US marines captive and burning the flag as a method of torture, then it would be every bit as wrong as the desecration of the Koran, and perhaps needlessly endanger the insurgents just as much as the desecration of the Koran -- and in fact all the torture US interrogators may or may not have done, or outsourced -- endangers US troops.

the day it becomes illegal to burn the US flag is the day i'll start burning flags in protest.
 
Your flag is worthy to be burned because she can take it. Evidently though "Koran abuse" by the detainees themselves was a lot more prevalent than anything done by the guards. Including shredding, putting in toilet and using as a pillow. The bibliotheism shown towards some dead trees and the apparent disregard towards the "true meaning of Islam" that is a religion of peace these types display is plain weird.

Having to wear gloves when touching Koran because the guard is considered a 'filthy infidel' is just a ridiculous level of pandering to your enemies. What endangers soliders lives is the reporting of non-existent Koran abuse (with later admission of completely seperate minor incidents for which reprimand was given), the failure of the Arab press to retract stories or clarify and the inciting of violence by those that manipulate and lie about your actions anyway. It does not matter if a real Koran was actually put in a toilet, pissed on or burned because you have people that want to believe whatever they get told.

If marines were captured and the worse they got was a burning flag as torture they would be very, very lucky. After the liberation of Falujah last year they found torture dens filled with corpses and wounded survivours. Not to mention the stock standard decapitation and mutilation of hostages. The mistreatment of hostages by terrorists is out there if you look for it, I am not making an argument of moral equivalence or justifying torture, just saying that treating the actions of hypothetical 'insurgents' to be as soft as burning a flag does not match with the actions in the real world.
 
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To compare this man to Bin Laden shows just how out of line and out of touch with reality this writer is.

Show me the pictures again of the planes SMASHING into the World Trade Center, and THOUSANDS of INNOCENT PEOPLE DYING. Show me the video of people JUMPING from the WTC hoping to escape certain DEATH. Show me the MILLIONS of people who lost friends and loved ones that day, who shed tears for those who were SLAUGHTERED.

Now tell me that someone in the current administration is worse than the mastermind behind this EVIL.

Osama Bin Laden deserves to die a thousand deaths.

You're telling me Karl Rove deserves the same?
 
No, I thought that the documented evidence ranging from pictures of the dungeon up to the video's of hostages being decapitated are enough to demonstrate that the jihadists are more than capable of torture and murder. If you were captured and the worst you got was seeing your flag burned in front of you then you would be very, very lucky.
 
you keep implying that the worst that happened was koran abuse



what is the point of

discussing anything with you?
 
Worse happened, but the point being made was about Koran abuse specifically.

Beating and torture is worse than anything done to paper, koran "abuse" is just a ridiculous diversion from actual torture. The highlighting of somebody stepping on a Koran or getting droplets of urine on it really pale in comparison to torture.
 
what does this have to do w/ the Koran and burning the flag? :huh:

I can't stand Karl Rove, but he certainly hasn't murdered thousands of people. I understand what this guy is saying about treason but it's rather extreme to talk about Osama in the same breath.

Anyway, Cooper and Miller might be ordered to jail today, they'll do more time than Karl Rove ever will.

By Pete Yost, Associated Press | July 6, 2005

WASHINGTON -- A federal prosecutor yesterday demanded that Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper testify before a grand jury investigating the leak of a CIA officer's identity, even though Time Inc. has surrendered e-mails and other documents in the probe.

Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald also opposed the request of Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller to be granted home detention -- instead of jail -- for refusing to reveal their sources.

Allowing the reporters home confinement would make it easier for them to continue to defy a court order to testify, he said. Special treatment for journalists may ''negate the coercive effect contemplated by federal law," Fitzgerald wrote in filings with the court.

''Journalists are not entitled to promise complete confidentiality -- no one in America is," Fitzgerald wrote.

Fitzgerald is investigating who in the administration leaked the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame, a possible federal crime. Plame's identity was leaked days after her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, publicly disparaged the president's case for invading Iraq.

Plame's name was first published in a 2003 column by Robert Novak, who cited two unidentified senior Bush administration officials as his sources. Novak has refused to say whether he has testified or been subpoenaed.

Cooper wrote a subsequent story naming Plame, and Miller gathered material but never wrote an article.

Time turned over Cooper's notes and other documents last week, four days after the Supreme Court refused to consider the case. Cooper's attorneys argued that producing the documents made it unnecessary for him to testify.

Miller and Cooper could be ordered to jail as early as today, when US District Judge Thomas Hogan will hear arguments from Fitzgerald and lawyers for the reporters about whether they should testify.

Hogan has found the reporters in contempt of court for refusing to divulge their sources and he indicated last week that he is prepared to send them to jail if they do not cooperate.

In his court filings, Fitzgerald said it is essential for courts to enforce their contempt orders so that grand juries can get the evidence they need.

Fitzgerald said it would be up to the judge to decide whether to send Cooper to the District of Columbia jail or some other facility. On Friday, Cooper's lawyers argued against sending him to the D.C. jail, saying it is a ''dangerous maximum security lockup already overcrowded with a mix of convicted offenders and other detainees awaiting criminal trials."

Miller's lawyers argue that there are no circumstances under which she will talk, but Fitzgerald disagreed.

''There is tension between Miller's claim that confinement will never coerce her to testify and her alternative position that this court should consider less restrictive forms of confinement," the prosecutor wrote.

The case is among the most serious legal clashes between the media and the government since the Supreme Court in 1971 refused to stop the Times and The Washington Post from publishing a classified history of the Vietnam War known as the Pentagon Papers.

Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia have shield laws protecting reporters from having to identify their confidential sources. Legislation to establish such protection under federal law has been introduced in Congress.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:huh: What does this have to do with anything?

It appears to be a commentary on the numerous standards used in evaluating situations. The difference between hero and villain can change without notice.
 
where's the fun, I guess I'm left out of it :grumpy: :wink:

I haven't arrived at any conclusions about Karl Rove's involvement, but his personality and aggressive tactics would make me believe it's a possibility.

I don't think he's a man of high moral integrity, that's just the impression I get. That doesn't mean I automatically think he's guilty. But if he is, I don't think it will ever be revealed.
 
WASHINGTON - A federal judge on Wednesday jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller for refusing to divulge her source to a grand jury investigating the Bush administration's leak of an undercover CIA operative's name. "There is still a realistic possibility that confinement might cause her to testify," U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan said. Miller stood up, hugged her lawyer and was escorted from the courtroom.
 
cardosino said:
And we all know one shouldn't desecrate things millions hold sacred. Unless it has a stars and stripes.....

Interesting. So now a national flag has 'sacred' status.
 
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