BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
Matt 18:6
Look it up.
dbs
I've already shown how that doesn't apply...
Try again.
diamond said:
Matt 18:6
Look it up.
dbs
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I've already shown how that doesn't apply...
Try again.
diamond said:Matt 18:6
Look it up.
This discourse of the fourth book of the gospel is often called the "church order" discourse, but it lacks most of the considerations usually connected with church order, such as various offices in the church and the duties of each, and deals principally with the relations that must obtain among the members of the church. Beginning with the warning that greatness in the kingdom of heaven is measured not by rank or power but by childlikeness (Matthew 18:1-5), it deals with the care that the disciples must take not to cause the little ones to sin or to neglect them if they stray from the community (Matthew 18:6-14), the correction of members who sin (Matthew 18:15-18), the efficacy of the prayer of the disciples because of the presence of Jesus (Matthew 18:19-20), and the forgiveness that must be repeatedly extended to sinful members who repent (Matthew 18:21-35).
diamond said:
You tried, and failed.
melon said:
I'd be interested if you could come up with a New Testament verse in support of capital punishment.
At least in the eyes of early Christians, the Old Testament was no longer to be used for purposes of morality or law; Jesus' commandment to "love one another" was considered to have replaced it. The only reason the OT was included as part of the Christian Biblical canon at all was so that references to it in the New Testament would thus have context.
diamond said:Apparently Christ didn't have any qualms telling somebody that if they scandalized, harmed or terrorized a child that it would be better that they were drowned in the depths of the sea from my read.
phillyfan26 said:But you don't know for sure that they're guilty.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Where do you live? Are we not talking about the US here?
Please!!!
JCOSTER said:
Capital punishment is implicityvalidated in the NT. Jesus acknowledged the legitamacy of capital punishment before Pilate
(John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.) as did the apostle Paul before the Roman Governor Festus. Not only so, but one of the thieves crucified with Christ had the candor to confess, We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. (Luke 23:41).
Moreover, Romans 13 implies that the failure of the governing authorities to apply the "sword" the roman symbol for capital punishment exalts evil and eradicates equity.
In short, God instituted capital punishment in the earliest stages of human civilization before the Mosaic Law, and capital punishment is never abrogated by Jesus or the Apostles. Thus capital punishment an enduring moral principle undergirding the sancity of life.
Phew.....that's all I got.
JCOSTER said:
Your the one with Cash saying FU and then below you have love thy neighbor. Whats that about...a little hypocritical.
JCOSTER said:
Your the one with Cash saying FU and then below you have love thy neighbor. Whats that about...a little hypocritical.
indra said:There has long been the belief (or at least lip service) in our justice system that it is better for 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man be jailed. Over the past couple of decades however, it seems to me that the opposite is deemed more acceptable. We're becoming an increasingly vengeful and vindictive nation -- much to our detriment.
JCOSTER said:
Whats your problem.
Not to draw out a tangent (because you're right, it is beside the point) but no, that commandment, Lo tirtzakh, the second person plural masculine imperative of ratzah, is in fact the Hebrew for an extralegal killing specifically, as opposed to harag, the usual verb for 'to kill.' Ratzah is far less common (it only appears about 50 times, I think) and other than this instance, always in a context linking it to punishment. Like our word 'murder,' it specifically denotes a killing not in accord with those varieties society deems acceptable, as embodied in law. In any case, the context of the Hebrew Bible ought to make it quite clear that that was definitely a society which considered killing acceptable under some circumstances. (On the other hand, capital punishment lost rabbinic sanction in 30 AD--probably largely in reaction to Roman abuse of it--but that's another story.)Diemen said:True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.
But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.
anitram said:This constant referral to the Bible must be a uniquely American thing because I've read a lot of DP literature from Canada and the UK and I can't say I've ever, EVER seen it as a line of reasoning. Here, you can't get away from it on this thread for a second.
It's honestly tiresome. We can discuss this in terms of the rule of law and a legal system, but how do you make an argument when somebody invokes Scriptures? You've already lost. They have their beliefs and their interpretation and that's that. Totally useless form of discussion, to be frank.
indra said:
Perhaps the "Fuck You" is to all those people who don't love their neighbours. I'm sure Johnny Cash met a lot of people who were backstabbing jerks who could act sweet as pie to those who could help them -- after all he was in the music biz.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
My problem is that your context is completely out of wack...
JCOSTER said:From Genesis:
And from each man too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.
JCOSTER said:
So your saying the bible is completely out of whack?
JCOSTER said:
So your saying the bible is completely out of whack?
My problem is that your context is completely out of wack...
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Wow...
First of all most say thou shall not kill. And even if it does say neighbor, neighbor has always been interpreted as humankind.
Otherwise we can pick and choose who we love. If we don't feel like loving someone from another race, we could just say they aren't our neighbor.
You may want to read this, it gives a little context:
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/668.htm
JCOSTER said:My context came from explanation of the verses pertaining to the DP.