Justice for Jessica........

[A_Wanderer]

It is impossible for them to reoffend, thats a legitimate argument.

 

[JCOSTER]

True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.

But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.

No its not a law its just common sense, don't kill, don't rob, don't cheat on your spouse etc.

Unfortunately you can't teach people common sense.

 

[indra]

It is impossible for them to reoffend, thats a legitimate argument.

It's also impossible to correct mistakes.

 

[BVS]

No its not a law its just common sense, don't kill, don't rob, don't cheat on your spouse etc.

Unfortunately you can't teach people common sense.

Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...

 

[JCOSTER]

Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...

Yes, true some mothers and fathers don't have any business being so but I think that is taken into consideration with a little common sense too.

I think everyone needs a sabbath day if not to reflect but to have some R & R once a week.

 

[indra]

Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...

The first four are religious in nature, so those are useless unless you are wont to believe in that stuff. And I agree with you on the parents bit.

So five aren't too bad, but it's not as if these ideas weren't around before this time.

 

[JCOSTER]

can anyone explain to me why the u.s. needs the death penalty when most of the rest of the world doesn't anymore?

Some countries don't have the death penalty but have much more of a brutal way of dealing with those who break the law such as, horrific jails where you wish you would be dead, torture, amputation, mutilation, stoning, drowning...etc. If I had to go through any of those I would rather be dead.

The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.

 

[yolland]

FYI...I don't rejoice in executions.

Wasn't thinking about you, I was recalling the one and only time I ever watched TV coverage of the aftermath of an execution, which featured crowds of beaming people whooping and cheering as they waved signs bearing slogans like "Bundy BBQ!!!" and "Thank God It's Fry-Day!!" A grotesque desecration of the gravity and horror of the whole situation (and yes, I'm most definitely including his victims in that)--as if it were all just a football game between Da Good Guyz and Da Bad Guyz or something...completely surreal.

Religion-based arguments for or against the death penalty are fine (though I'm certain that wasn't the discussion AchtungBono intended to start), but the reason I was saying the tangent about whether "true Christians" or "good Christians" molest and kill children was out of place is because the implied opposition here is utterly ludicrous. Does anyone actually think there's any country or traditional society in the world--Christian, secularist, Muslim, animist or whatever--where it wouldn't be considered a heinous crime to break into a family's home, abduct their 9-year-old daughter, rape her repeatedly over the course of several days in between intervals of locking her in a closet, then bury her alive so that she could suffocate to death? Seriously? Who gives a damn which ethical system, if any, this guy professed to follow? It's a self-evident given he wasn't, and no one needs to be told that. He wasn't a "good" anything.

 

[BVS]

The first four are religious in nature, so those are useless unless you are wont to believe in that stuff. And I agree with you on the parents bit.

So five aren't too bad, but it's not as if these ideas weren't around before this time.

That's why I think the original commandment supercedes everything else.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[BVS]

The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.

Still not a reason to have it.

 

[phillyfan26]

It is impossible for them to reoffend, thats a legitimate argument.

As is life in prison, I don't see the difference.

And indra said my reply.

 

[martha]

don't kill

Which is it? Don't kill, or kill via executions?

 

[A_Wanderer]

As is life in prison, I don't see the difference.

And indra said my reply.

There is no such thing as an impossible to escape prison or for a declaration that a prisoner will never ever ever ever be released; death is final, much more final than prison, that is it's weakeness.

 

[JCOSTER]

Still not a reason to have it.

So then lets not have and just do what the other countries do instead because thats so much more humane.

 

[phillyfan26]

There is no such thing as an impossible to escape prison or for a declaration that a prisoner will never ever ever ever be released; death is final, much more final than prison, that is it's weakeness.

There's no such thing as certainty in a system based on guilt beyond a reasonable doubt either.

 

[phillyfan26]

So then lets not have and just do what the other countries do instead because thats so much more humane.

Why is it one or the other? Can't we put them in a humane prison for life without parole. I'm not inferring treating them like kings but nothing like your examples show.

 

[martha]

So then lets not have and just do what the other countries do instead because thats so much more humane.

There's no middle ground? We either have to execute our criminals or torture them?

 

[BVS]

So then lets not have and just do what the other countries do instead because thats so much more humane.

What kind of logic is that? You basically said, "well it's more humane than torturous amputating prisons, so why not kill them."

Do you not see a gray in there? I'm sorry if you don't...

 

[anitram]

The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.

Yes, if you choose the extreme countries.

Last I heard prisoners in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe weren't being tortured in medieval jails.

 

[JCOSTER]

Which is it? Don't kill, or kill via executions?

Don't kill thy neighbor. Meaning don't kill your friend/relative/someone else just for the sake of killing.

Maybe this will explain a little better:

The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (KJV)

This passage regards the killing of a human as an offense against God because humans were made in the image of God, both male and female. Unlike the previous passage which required that the murderer be merely exiled, this verse required the murderer to be killed.

 

[JCOSTER]

What kind of logic is that? You basically said, "well it's more humane than torturous amputating prisons, so why not kill them."

Do you not see a gray in there? I'm sorry if you don't...

I myself would rather be dead then put into a chinese or turkish prison. Theres no gray there, if I was going to be stoned to death or mutilated because I murdered someone I would rather have a lethal injection.

 

[melon]

Maybe this will explain a little better:

The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (KJV)

This passage regards the killing of a human as an offense against God because humans were made in the image of God, both male and female. Unlike the previous passage which required that the murderer be merely exiled, this verse required the murderer to be killed.

I'd be interested if you could come up with a New Testament verse in support of capital punishment.

At least in the eyes of early Christians, the Old Testament was no longer to be used for purposes of morality or law; Jesus' commandment to "love one another" was considered to have replaced it. The only reason the OT was included as part of the Christian Biblical canon at all was so that references to it in the New Testament would thus have context.

 

[JCOSTER]

Why is it one or the other? Can't we put them in a humane prison for life without parole. I'm not inferring treating them like kings but nothing like your examples show.

My quote was in response to Bonovox.

 

[diamond]

I think we are quite humane on how we execute guilty murderers in our country.

dbs

 

[phillyfan26]

My quote was in response to Bonovox.

Yes, I understood that, and reflected it in my response.

 

[JCOSTER]

I think we are quite humane on how we execute guilty murderers in our country.

dbs

I agree w/u. Euthanization is IF it is done like when you put your pet down seems like a nice way to meet your maker.

 

[diamond]

I'd be interested if you could come up with a New Testament verse in support of capital punishment.

.

Matt 18:6

Look it up.

dbs

 

[phillyfan26]

I think we are quite humane on how we execute guilty murderers in our country.

dbs

The problem is that they're not always guilty.

 

[BVS]

Don't kill thy neighbor. Meaning don't kill your friend/relative/someone else just for the sake of killing.

Maybe this will explain a little better:

The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (KJV)

This passage regards the killing of a human as an offense against God because humans were made in the image of God, both male and female. Unlike the previous passage which required that the murderer be merely exiled, this verse required the murderer to be killed.

Wow...

First of all most say thou shall not kill. And even if it does say neighbor, neighbor has always been interpreted as humankind.

Otherwise we can pick and choose who we love. If we don't feel like loving someone from another race, we could just say they aren't our neighbor.

You may want to read this, it gives a little context:

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/668.htm

 

[BVS]

I myself would rather be dead then put into a chinese or turkish prison. Theres no gray there, if I was going to be stoned to death or mutilated because I murdered someone I would rather have a lethal injection.

Where do you live? Are we not talking about the US here?

Please!!!