Justice for Jessica........

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Bluer White said:
I disagree with the DP on moral grounds and also because I don't think it's a deterrent. If it's not a practical deterrent, then as CTU2fan put it, the DP is no more than state-sponsored revenge, right?



very well said.
 
2861U2 said:


I admire that man very much.

The man's been to hell and back, I admire he's still able to maintain.

But part of that speech made me cringe, you could tell someone pulled him aside and put their agenda in his mouth, and that just made me sick... the whole cutting back 4% thing just discusted me, there's a time and a place...
 
JCOSTER said:
^ then how come the 39 sex offenders living in my area are not in jail?

They served time but, it wasn't life.



a sex offender is a very, very wide definition, covering everything from rapists to someone who might have been convicted for indecent exposure. either way, they've committed a crime. and if someone commits a crime, and then does the time, are they not entitled to then get on with their lives? why is a sex offense any better or worse than robbing a 7-11?
 
Irvine511 said:




why is a sex offense any better or worse than robbing a 7-11?

Well I would admit that some sex crimes are worse than robbery, like you said there's a wide definition, but to equate it with murder is ridiculous.
 
JCOSTER said:
^ Jessica was from my town at one time and her dad from what I understand still lives here.

I say that he should be buried alive the same way she was, tortured and raped too. Good riddence for crap like him. Its just one left we have to worry about.


My thoughts exactly.
 
unico said:
so is anyone else alarmed or at least curious about the list i posted earlier?

Depressed. We're in such lovely company.
 
phillyfan26 said:
The biggest flaw in the idea of the death penalty is that there is always a chance that the person is actually not guilty. It happens. You hear and read the stories. Why take the chance that you are killing someone who is not guilty? The justice system is built on the idea that a guilty verdict derives from a belief beyond a reasonable doubt. Not certainty.

I want someone who's pro-DP to counter-argue this. I really do.
 
I think she was trying to push for longer sentencing for severe sex offenses, which I think is not an unreasonable argument. I think it just came at a time in which that topic wasn't being discussed, so it's out of place more than anything.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
And unless they were found to be clinically insane then yes most child murderers do get life
Do you have data to support this?
 
yolland said:

Do you have data to support this?

Well there isn't much data that separates child murder from adult murder, especially since the term child is defined differently from state to state. What I was going by is there is no evidence that child murderers are treated any differently than any other murderer, especially in the terms that this poster was suggesting. And that the majority of murderers in general do not get just "a certain amount of years".
 
JCOSTER said:

Not yet anyway.

Sigh.

I wonder if the net result of those sex offender notifications is just a ratcheting up of fear in some neighbourhoods and a false sense of security in others rather than a reasonable sense of caution everywhere. I mean I'm older than you are and I remember as a child being aware that there are people children shouldn't be around, and that those people aren't always the ones you think they are either. That wasn't because of some notifications sent around, but just logic.

Sometimes I think so many people are so worried about the convicted child molester down the street that they don't pay a bit of attention to Uncle Joe who's been molesting generations of family members. My guess (and it is just my guess) is that if you know people from work, school (your kids or your own), church, various clubs, etc., you already know at least one child molester. I would also bet that person will never be arrested or convicted.
 
indra said:


Depressed. We're in such lovely company.

What is even more telling is that the US has a higher murder rate than all those western countries which abolished the death penalty. Great deterrent!
 
anitram said:


What is even more telling is that the US has a higher murder rate than all those western countries which abolished the death penalty. Great deterrent!
How would abolishing the death penalty cause a reduction in murder rates, aren't they two seperate issues.
 
I oppose the death penalty, how is it twisting the issues, the highest form of punishment doesn't seem to stop murders from happening even in the absence of the death penalty; does punishment ever really stop crime?
 
Nothing is ever going to stop murders from occuring - as a race of people we are sadly quite violent and agressive.

I just don't understand the people that say ' i want to do just what he did to my child etc' So you want to rape him, then strangle him, then put him in a abag and bury him? Could you do that? Because if you can you are no better then him revenge/mental illness/anger whatever, they are no better and one is not better then the other in causing a death of someone.

Perhaps the prisons wouldn't be so overcrowded if they didn't lock up every pot smoker and that person who robbed a 7 11 for 12 dollars because they're starving/homeless whatever.

Lets leave jail for the actual criminals, and set up more rehabilitation and help centers for the desperate people who commit crimes because they feel there is no other way.
But then.... they're all the same anyway isn't that right?

Also what does it mean ' so they can go to some jail and get a degree and 3 meals a day and live life' ? Wow they get to get a degree, not much use when they spend 23 hours a day locked in a tiny cell. Oh and 3 meals a day? Wow lets knock the cordon bleu and white wine out of their hands and give them a piece of mouldy bread and some bracken water. Jail isn't some country club - and i seriously believe being locked up in a tiny cell for 50 years is a much better deterrant then the death penalty.
 
phillyfan26 said:


I want someone who's pro-DP to counter-argue this. I really do.

I know that you're not implying that Couey was innocent so what are you saying? This is a clear case of guilt that Couey himself confessed to many times and that was PROVEN in a court of law.

Where is the assumption of innocence in this case?
 
A_Wanderer said:
How would abolishing the death penalty cause a reduction in murder rates, aren't they two seperate issues.

Well it wouldn't and it doesn't in practice. But the argument is constantly raised that the death penalty serves several purposes: punishment, deterrence, exemplary action and so on. There have been countless criminal law papers written on exactly this matter, and yet we all know deterrence doesn't work when it comes to murder.

As for whether punishment stops a crime - I would say it probably does with some crimes, at very low rates.
 
indra said:


Sometimes I think so many people are so worried about the convicted child molester down the street that they don't pay a bit of attention to Uncle Joe who's been molesting generations of family members. My guess (and it is just my guess) is that if you know people from work, school (your kids or your own), church, various clubs, etc., you already know at least one child molester. I would also bet that person will never be arrested or convicted.



you are absolutely correct.

most children who are molested are pre-teen to young-teenaged girls, and its at the hands of an older male relative. but that's not as sensational as the potential for a Jeffrey Dahmer. so let's ignore the real problem and make ourselves hysterical about these one-in-a-million (which is not to say it doesn't happen, it does) situations.

i also tripped up in my "rob a 7-11 analogy." what i meant by "worse" was that, if someone serves 5 years for robbing a 7-11, and someone serves 15 years for rape, and both have done their time, served their debt to soceity, can we really say that one is more or less deserving of a fresh start than the other?

people do crimes, they do time, and then what?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:banghead:

You can't send people to life because they might become a killer!!!

If that was the case we'd all be in jail.

I never said that. What I was getting at is that sooner or later a child molester would end up killing one of its victims.
 
JCOSTER said:


I never said that. What I was getting at is that sooner or later a child molester would end up killing one of its victims.

Yes SOME do, and some buglars end up killing their victims, and some wives end up killing their husbands or children.

But you seem to be under the impression they all do and lump them into one category.
 
Just so its clear, this is the exact notification we recieve through the school district if your school has signed up for it.


Please be advised that Parents for Megan's Law has been informed of the presence of the following sex offenders. Please go to our website, http://www.parentsformeganslaw.org and search for the following sex offenders.

(1) Low Risk Offenders (Level 1) (2) Moderate Risk Offenders (Level 2) and (2) High Risk Offenders (Level 3) in Suffolk County, and (2) Low Risk Offenders (Level 1) (0) Moderate Risk Offenders (Level 2) and (0) High Risk Offenders (Level 3) in Nassau County.

Suffolk County:
Low Risk Offenders:
Lawrence Nelke DOB:03/14/1949 Zip Code:11722 Central Islip

Suffolk County:
Moderate Risk Offenders:
James Squire DOB:07/03/1964 Zip Code:11727 Coram
Teofilo Espinosa DOB:04/14/1933 Zip Code:11722 Central Islip

Suffolk County:
High Risk Offenders:
James Mallard DOB:08/01/1966 Zip Code:11727 Coram
David Arnold DOB:01/10/1975 Zip Code:11727 Coram

Nassau County:
Low Risk Offenders:
Michael Caputo DOB:06/17/1968 Zip Code:11558 Island Park Joanne Depuy DOB:05/26/1958 Zip Code: 11793 Wantagh

Nassau County:
Moderate Risk Offenders:

Nassau County
High Risk Offenders:

Be advised that 90 percent of childhood sexual abuse occurs with someone a child has an established and trusting relationship with, often a person in a position of authority. Be aware of those offenders who have been caught and convicted, and take necessary precautions, but do not make the mistake of thinking that because you know the whereabouts of registered offenders that your children are immune to sexual victimization.

Call our hotline at 631-689-2672 to schedule workshops for parents and children to learn how to prevent sexual victimization. We offer fun and informative educational programs for children from preschool through high school and adult education.

Parents For Megan's Law (PFML) makes no guarantee as to the timeliness or accuracy of the information it provides herein. PFML is simply reporting the information as it receives from law enforcement.

Please be advised that not all local Long Island municipal police departments participate in the PFML email alert program. The following law enforcement agencies provide this information to PFML:

Suffolk County Police Department
Nassau County Police Department
 
AchtungBono said:
I know that you're not implying that Couey was innocent so what are you saying? This is a clear case of guilt that Couey himself confessed to many times and that was PROVEN in a court of law.

Where is the assumption of innocence in this case?

Are you serious? You can't see what I'm saying? Read my post again. It has nothing to do with THIS case. I'm talking about the death penalty in general. Think about this:

1) In a court of law, guilt is proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Not for certainty.

2) There have been cases in the past in which people were found guilty for crimes they didn't commit.

3) If a person is in prison for life without parole, they cannot commit the crimes.
 
JCOSTER said:
Be advised that 90 percent of childhood sexual abuse occurs with someone a child has an established and trusting relationship with, often a person in a position of authority.

Dads, uncles, grandpas, boyfriends of other adults, teachers, policemen, priests, firemen, crossing guards, babysitters, pretty much anyone with a penis that the child knows.
 
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