Justice for Jessica........

[Angela Harlem]

JCoster, I appreciate your sticking with this thread for so long now. Just wanted to say that, incase you're feeling the 'banging head against brickwall' syndrome and that no one's listening. I hope nothing is taken too personally from this thread. I've had major disagreements with some people I really appreciate on here, and I'm glad at the end of the day it doesn't really change much. They might think I am more of an opinionated pain in the arse more than before, but it's never stopped anyone from just moving on!

[martha]

Originally posted by Irvine511
my oppostion to the death penalty has nothing to do with the implication that a crime has to be *really* bad to warrant the death penalty and everything to do with the fact that the death penalty has nothing to do with justice, the rule of law, peace, order, good government, etc.

I concur.

[BVS]

Originally posted by JCOSTER


As much as I can't imagine being a parent of a murdered child I can't imagine being a parent of the one who had done the deed either.

I've been related to both. One relative was killed by a jealous lover, and one relative killed the man that raped his wife. I was very close to both... and still to this day would I ever support the DP... NEVER

[unico]

I stand by my earlier claim that the DP is flawed, archaic, and unnecessary. However, I wonder why those who do support the DP disagree with those three reasons.

It is a damn shame what happened to Jessica. And not that I'm in support of the DP, but I'm wondering why James Ford Seale (White, former KKK) did not get the DP after kidnapping, and beating 2 19 year old (Black) men, then ductaping their mouths and limbs while still alive and throwing them into the Mississippi River. Instead he was sentenced to life in prison.

Actually, I know why he didn't get the DP. I'm just wondering what the pro-DP people have to say about this, since they believe that execution is a deservable punishment after taking the lives of other people.

I'm wondering what it is going to take to get people to see that the DP serves no justice. It only breeds racism, violence, and poverty. I wonder how many people get the DP for killing black people. How many minorities are murdered every day in high-crime areas. I don't see the same outrage happening over the loss of their lives.

[LJT]

Surely only a few murderers ever get the DP...If the pro-DP people follow their principles of a life for a life wouldn't that mean there should be increased numbers of people receiving the DP?

[unico]

Originally posted by LJT
Surely only a few murderers ever get the DP...If the pro-DP people follow their principles of a life for a life wouldn't that mean there should be increased numbers of people receiving the DP?

That's what I'm wondering. I mean, according to my understanding of that justification, then yes, but I'm not sure because of my different stance.

[JCOSTER]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I've been related to both. One relative was killed by a jealous lover, and one relative killed the man that raped his wife. I was very close to both... and still to this day would I ever support the DP... NEVER

FYI....My very close older cousin who was like an older brother to me was gunned down in the street when he was 25 through mistaken identity. The shot was meant for a bunch of guys hanging around in front of another house a few blocks over. My cousin left behind his infant daughter and the shooter was never caught.

That same cousin had just broken up a week before from dating a girl named Stacey Mosckowitz who was murdered by the Son of Sam.

So I've been related to it to it as well and to this day still believe in the DP.

[JCOSTER]

Originally posted by Angela Harlem
JCoster, I appreciate your sticking with this thread for so long now. Just wanted to say that, incase you're feeling the 'banging head against brickwall' syndrome and that no one's listening. I hope nothing is taken too personally from this thread. I've had major disagreements with some people I really appreciate on here, and I'm glad at the end of the day it doesn't really change much. They might think I am more of an opinionated pain in the arse more than before, but it's never stopped anyone from just moving on!

Thanks.

[LJT]

Originally posted by unico


That's what I'm wondering. I mean, according to my understanding of that justification, then yes, but I'm not sure because of my different stance.

It would certainly lead to a cull of the prison population if the life for a life principle was put in place across the board...though of course in Texas it's not even life for a life, it's DP for being in the same car as a person who carried out a heat of the moment murder

What a wonderful world we live in...

I know it is a bit disingenuous to compare the State's use of the DP with Saudia Arabia, North Korea and a host of other "not the most wonderful in the world" states...as the likes of Japan also has the DP...but the list for states without the DP certainly makes for better reading.

I wonder what justification the Japanese have for the DP? Or maybe it happens only rarely it doesn't cause such a fuss when it does?

[unico]

Originally posted by LJT


It would certainly lead to a cull of the prison population if the life for a life principle was put in place across the board...though of course in Texas it's not even life for a life, it's DP for being in the same car as a person who carried out a heat of the moment murder

What a wonderful world we live in...

I know it is a bit disingenuous to compare the State's use of the DP with Saudia Arabia, North Korea and a host of other "not the most wonderful in the world" states...as the likes of Japan also has the DP...but the list for states without the DP certainly makes for better reading.

I wonder what justification the Japanese have for the DP? Or maybe it happens only rarely it doesn't cause such a fuss when it does?

I was surprised Japan was on the list too, especially considering the really low murder rate they have. I wonder if it hasn't been used in years or something. It just seems incongruent with the population I think.

[LJT]

I found this article on the Washington Post site, interesting read...seems Japan still uses the DP quite frequently...apparently support for it has ebbed and flowed over the centuries but it seems to be quite high at the moment...the reasons for the support though seem quite unclear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan15.html

[diamond]

Originally posted by unico
I stand by my earlier claim that the DP is flawed, archaic, and unnecessary. However, I wonder why those who do support the DP disagree with those three reasons.

It is a damn shame what happened to Jessica. And not that I'm in support of the DP, but I'm wondering why James Ford Seale (White, former KKK) did not get the DP after kidnapping, and beating 2 19 year old (Black) men, then ductaping their mouths and limbs while still alive and throwing them into the Mississippi River. Instead he was sentenced to life in prison.

Actually, I know why he didn't get the DP. I'm just wondering what the pro-DP people have to say about this, since they believe that execution is a deservable punishment after taking the lives of other people.

I'm wondering what it is going to take to get people to see that the DP serves no justice. It only breeds racism, violence, and poverty. I wonder how many people get the DP for killing black people. How many minorities are murdered every day in high-crime areas. I don't see the same outrage happening over the loss of their lives.

Unico-

I would favor taking race out of the equation.
Should Jim Seale received the death penalty? Absolutely.

Is there a disproprtionate amount of non whites being executed compared to whites? I'm not sure. If so that that isn't right.

I think though the reason is more due to economics.

A rich person usually never gets the death penalty, whether they are white black or pink.

I understand I'm of the minority opinon here-in support of the death penalty.

This thread is about the little girl who was snuffed out by a pedophile, and justice for her.

Segues into ppl's understanding of Christianty have dominated this thread with each person's different interpretation of God's word.
Profanity has been hurled about, names have been called, and contention has filled this thread. I think that is wrong.

Lastly for some that think I'm some heartless, unforgiving judgemental person it may behoove you to know that part time I work as Prison Minister for the State of Arizona Dept Of Corrections, free of charge.

For the last 6 months I've been counseling an African American man who is serving a long sentence for molestation of a minor.
I visit with and exchange letters often. The prison is about 1 hr from my home. This person is looking to change his life, and feels deeply sorrowful for his actions that wound him up in prison.


I don't look at him as an inferior human being, I look at him as somebody with a troubled soul who was raised in wrong circumstances, and although he came from a lousy home, he's still accountable for his actions. I'm there for him and to help him assist him to right the wrongs of his past, and never repeat his mistakes again.


Anyway guys I'm busy with work, kids church and my prison ministry activities.

I think the hostility in this thread does Jessica a dis service, and for that reason I'm going to bow out.

God Bless,

dbs

[unico]

Originally posted by diamond


Unico-

I would favor taking race out of the equation.
Should Jim Seale received the death penalty? Absolutely.

Is there a disproprtionate amount of non whites being executed compared to whites? I'm not sure. If so that that isn't right.

That I don't know, but I'm willing to guess what the answer is. What I'm saying though, is that I believe all lives taken away is tragic. However, when somebody kills someone who is white, people demand DP justice. However, when poor blacks, immigrants, and other marginalized people are murdered, I don't see the same outcries.

I'm not saying Jessicas tragic death doesn't deserve any outcry. It sure as heck does! Nobody deserves a tragedy. All I'm saying is that I don't see people demanding "justice" when someone who is marginalized is murdered, as it happens every day in high-crime communities.

I think the justice system is still very much biased and flawed. Thus, sentences as ultimate as the DP have no place in a system full of inconsistencies.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally posted by LJT
I found this article on the Washington Post site, interesting read...seems Japan still uses the DP quite frequently...apparently support for it has ebbed and flowed over the centuries but it seems to be quite high at the moment...the reasons for the support though seem quite unclear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan15.html

They want the DP in use in case the Tenno screws up again.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by diamond


Segues into ppl's understanding of Christianty have dominated this thread with each person's different interpretation of God's word.
Profanity has been hurled about, names have been called, and contention has filled this thread. I think that is wrong.

and do you not see yourself as the primary instigator of all of this?

guess not -- true Christians don't do that, do they.

[deep]

Originally posted by toscano
OK, hands up everyone who thinks caucasian = white ?

Two of those guys are white, (and they are the images that Americans have been conditioned to believe represent the person in question)

and one of them looks like he belongs in GITMO.

[phillyfan26]

Originally posted by diamond


Unico-

I would favor taking race out of the equation.
Should Jim Seale received the death penalty? Absolutely.

Is there a disproprtionate amount of non whites being executed compared to whites? I'm not sure. If so that that isn't right.

I think though the reason is more due to economics.

A rich person usually never gets the death penalty, whether they are white black or pink.

I understand I'm of the minority opinon here-in support of the death penalty.

This thread is about the little girl who was snuffed out by a pedophile, and justice for her.

Segues into ppl's understanding of Christianty have dominated this thread with each person's different interpretation of God's word.
Profanity has been hurled about, names have been called, and contention has filled this thread. I think that is wrong.

Lastly for some that think I'm some heartless, unforgiving judgemental person it may behoove you to know that part time I work as Prison Minister for the State of Arizona Dept Of Corrections, free of charge.

For the last 6 months I've been counseling an African American man who is serving a long sentence for molestation of a minor.
I visit with and exchange letters often. The prison is about 1 hr from my home. This person is looking to change his life, and feels deeply sorrowful for his actions that wound him up in prison.


I don't look at him as an inferior human being, I look at him as somebody with a troubled soul who was raised in wrong circumstances, and although he came from a lousy home, he's still accountable for his actions. I'm there for him and to help him assist him to right the wrongs of his past, and never repeat his mistakes again.


Anyway guys I'm busy with work, kids church and my prison ministry activities.

I think the hostility in this thread does Jessica a dis service, and for that reason I'm going to bow out.

God Bless,

dbs

I'd like to ask you why there should be death penalties in a system that isn't based on absolute certainty, rather guilt merely beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally posted by deep
[IMG]
Two of those guys are white, (and they are the images that Americans have been conditioned to believe represent the person in question)

Not only the Americans.

[JCOSTER]

Don't you think that is a little inappropriate?

[deep]

Originally posted by JCOSTER
Don't you think that is a little inappropriate?

What, that most people have a false image of Christ?

well, anyways

It was brought into the conversation here

Originally posted by Diemen 08-25-2007 12:55 PM -



According to polling data, most Christians in this country think Jesus was white.

which was a reply to a post that suggested "Most Christians would support executing Covey."