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Old 08-25-2007, 06:18 PM   #201
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I think there are some deeply committed religious and ethical pacifists out there who sincerely wouldn't want it. I admire people like that for their consistency, but I'm not one of them.
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:25 PM   #202
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I'm sure feelings would be there. However, in the end it would destroy even more than already got destroyed, so it wouldn't be a wise choice.
I would love to have more than one kid, and a wife, plus friends and greater family. So I would just add unnecessary harm to what already has harmed all.
And I sure hope I will never have to find out.
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:14 PM   #203
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I'm Christian and anti-DP so stop making all of Christianity follow you.
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Old 08-25-2007, 07:50 PM   #204
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Originally posted by yolland

On a personal level I feel absolutely no concern for what happens to John Couey himself, so long as it involves permanent exclusion from society, though I do find the idea of strangers rejoicing in executions repulsive.
FYI...I don't rejoice in executions. I do believe if found guilty with no uncertain doubt in a murder that person should be given the DP.

Even though I am a christian I don't go around telling people what they should believe.

I do however, believe that if everyone followed the 10 commandments which is basic human common sense, the issue of the death penalty and John Couey wouldn't be a discussion.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:04 PM   #205
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No she's not.
She was being sarcastic.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:06 PM   #206
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Originally posted by yolland
I also agree that both the sentencing and rehabilitation of child molesters and the sentencing of child murderers in this country are often woefully inadequate, but unfortunately that's a separate issue and probably not one we can achieve much of a substantive discussion on in here, as it doesn't really pertain to broad general principles that can be analyzed and debated but rather the patchwork quilt of relevant laws and legal procedures across the country and all the loopholes it has in it.

And all this blather about whether true Christians molest children and what race Jesus belonged to, etc. is absolutely bonkers and has no place in this thread.
Completely agree with this.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:35 PM   #207
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I do however, believe that if everyone followed the 10 commandments which is basic human common sense, the issue of the death penalty and John Couey wouldn't be a discussion.
True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.

But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:38 PM   #208
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can anyone explain to me why the u.s. needs the death penalty when most of the rest of the world doesn't anymore?
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:44 PM   #209
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state by state... We're a big country with a lot of variations in beliefs... I still think that is a pretty good way to legislate this kind of stuff. Different parts of the country will have different ways of handling this stuff.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:45 PM   #210
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I don't see why it works. There's no legitimate argument for the death penalty. I haven't seen one.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:53 PM   #211
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It is impossible for them to reoffend, thats a legitimate argument.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:54 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


True, because there would be no murder (thou shall not kill) and no death penalty (you guessed it, thou shall not kill). There is no qualifier to that commandment. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill, unless the person did something truly awful," so at least through the lens of the 10 Commandments, the death penalty is wrong.

But all that is besides the point, because that's not the world we live in. The 10 commandments are not law.

No its not a law its just common sense, don't kill, don't rob, don't cheat on your spouse etc.

Unfortunately you can't teach people common sense.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:54 PM   #213
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It is impossible for them to reoffend, thats a legitimate argument.
It's also impossible to correct mistakes.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:59 PM   #214
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No its not a law its just common sense, don't kill, don't rob, don't cheat on your spouse etc.

Unfortunately you can't teach people common sense.
Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:03 PM   #215
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Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...
Yes, true some mothers and fathers don't have any business being so but I think that is taken into consideration with a little common sense too.

I think everyone needs a sabbath day if not to reflect but to have some R & R once a week.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:07 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Well I wouldn't say it's all common sense. There are times when mothers and fathers are wrong and shouldn't be honored, and keeping the sabbath holy can be interpreted many many different ways...
The first four are religious in nature, so those are useless unless you are wont to believe in that stuff. And I agree with you on the parents bit.

So five aren't too bad, but it's not as if these ideas weren't around before this time.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:08 PM   #217
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Originally posted by unico
can anyone explain to me why the u.s. needs the death penalty when most of the rest of the world doesn't anymore?
Some countries don't have the death penalty but have much more of a brutal way of dealing with those who break the law such as, horrific jails where you wish you would be dead, torture, amputation, mutilation, stoning, drowning...etc. If I had to go through any of those I would rather be dead.

The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:12 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
FYI...I don't rejoice in executions.
Wasn't thinking about you, I was recalling the one and only time I ever watched TV coverage of the aftermath of an execution, which featured crowds of beaming people whooping and cheering as they waved signs bearing slogans like "Bundy BBQ!!!" and "Thank God It's Fry-Day!!" A grotesque desecration of the gravity and horror of the whole situation (and yes, I'm most definitely including his victims in that)--as if it were all just a football game between Da Good Guyz and Da Bad Guyz or something...completely surreal.

Religion-based arguments for or against the death penalty are fine (though I'm certain that wasn't the discussion AchtungBono intended to start), but the reason I was saying the tangent about whether "true Christians" or "good Christians" molest and kill children was out of place is because the implied opposition here is utterly ludicrous. Does anyone actually think there's any country or traditional society in the world--Christian, secularist, Muslim, animist or whatever--where it wouldn't be considered a heinous crime to break into a family's home, abduct their 9-year-old daughter, rape her repeatedly over the course of several days in between intervals of locking her in a closet, then bury her alive so that she could suffocate to death? Seriously? Who gives a damn which ethical system, if any, this guy professed to follow? It's a self-evident given he wasn't, and no one needs to be told that. He wasn't a "good" anything.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:20 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


The first four are religious in nature, so those are useless unless you are wont to believe in that stuff. And I agree with you on the parents bit.

So five aren't too bad, but it's not as if these ideas weren't around before this time.
That's why I think the original commandment supercedes everything else.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:21 PM   #220
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The DP is humane compared to the jail sentences and punishments from other countries.
Still not a reason to have it.
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