Jealousy of America

[z edge]

I wonder why? We certainly aren't the prettiest country there is. The most beautiful land in the world is not really here. The most beautiful architecture isn't either. We aren't the birthplace of Jesus.

Why are people so jealous that it turns to unfair criticism (and what is sometimes perceived as hatred?)

Is it U2 related? (specifically when relating to this forum since this is a U2 forum) Is it because U2 played so many shows in the US this time around and not in a particular country outside the US? Is it because of the flag in Bono's jacket? The flag during SBS post 911?

What if this country were to actually become an island, as we are constantly being accused of. What if we closed up and ignored the rest of the world and let them build whatever whenever. Conquer and blow up whomever they pleased, while we parked our planes and boats in museums to gather dust all of the meanwhile? But never opened the door to let anyone in. Never helped anyone out, never bailed anyone out.

Would you appreciate us then?

 

[pinkfloyd]

Z EDGE

YOUR FUCKINNG PLANES , Altitude ,


YOUR SPEECHES , YOUR " GOD BLESS AMERICA "

YEAR AND SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL

 

[U2Bama]

Maybe it is our version of football.

 

[z edge]

my Altitude?

 

[rafmed]

Zedge your are taking this in a way, that at least in my point of view is not true, you acuse me of antiamerican, I'm sure I'm not one, I have quite a few american friends, in this forum as in real life, and I don't think they consider me one. I obviously don't agree with many of your posts or by the way stances of the USA government, as much as I don't agree with some of the stances of my own government, I don't see any hatred in that, is just my opinion, that we disagree doesn't mean to take things personal, you think militarism is an option, I refuse to think it is.

And I say again, I hope you don't take things personal.


Peace.

 

[rafmed]

Maybe it is our version of football.

Now that is definetely the wrong answer

 

[z edge]

Zedge your are taking this in a way, that at least in my point of view is not true, you acuse me of antiamerican, I'm sure I'm not one, I have quite a few american friends, in this forum as in real life, and I don't think they consider me one. I obviously don't agree with many of your posts or by the way stances of the USA government, as much as I don't agree with some of the stances of my own government, I don't see any hatred in that, is just my opinion, that we disagree doesn't mean to take things personal, you think militarism is an option, I refuse to think it is.

And I say again, I hope you don't take things personal.


Peace.

Well thank you for your answer.

I don't know how else you want me to take this though? It is practically shoved down my throat every time I enter FYM, as I still have the right to do.

I don't know but the americans here in FYM don't start 20 threads a week about MEXICAN ABUSES or whatever in the hell, take your pick?

But moreover, and back to the question.

What I posted is what a lot of Americans feel (in the real world and not necessarily this forums). A lot of us realize what goes on in the world, are aware of things outside of america. We hear about the opposition to america from damn near everyone except Israel.

Honestly, if I were to wear my Old Navy t-shirt with the american flag on it down the main street in say Mexico or The Netherlands, what would happen? If the posts on this board were any indication of the temperature of the people in the represenative countries I mentioned, I feel I would probably be beaten to a pulp for wearing the shirt.

Yet, what if a dutch fellow were to wear a Dutch flag t-shirt down Hollywood & Vine or Peachtree st in atlanta? Nothing, they do it all the time.

I think it is a valid question.

Personally I would perfer peace, I just don't understand how anyone could think it is even an option right now.

 

[rafmed]

Well thank you for your answer.

I don't know how else you want me to take this though? It is practically shoved down my throat every time I enter FYM, as I still have the right to do.

I don't know but the americans here in FYM don't start 20 threads a week about MEXICAN ABUSES or whatever in the hell, take your pick?

But moreover, and back to the question.

What I posted is what a lot of Americans feel (in the real world and not necessarily this forums). A lot of us realize what goes on in the world, are aware of things outside of america. We hear about the opposition to america from damn near everyone except Israel.

Honestly, if I were to wear my Old Navy t-shirt with the american flag on it down the main street in say Mexico or The Netherlands, what would happen? If the posts on this board were any indication of the temperature of the people in the represenative countries I mentioned, I feel I would probably be beaten to a pulp for wearing the shirt.

Yet, what if a dutch fellow were to wear a Dutch flag down Hollywood & Vine or Peachtree st in atlanta? Nothing, they do it all the time.

I think it is a valid question.

Personally I would perfer peace, I just don't understand how anyone could think it is even an option right now.

I think we get post from abuses in many countries, personally if you posted about abuses here ( and of course there are) I would try to document the cases, and the actions that would has been taken if that would be the case.

About walking on Mexico City with the american flag...you could be walking dressed as Uncle Sam and no one would provoque you in the way you think, maybe some would laugh seriously, you can see some american flags once and then in people clothes, I guess less than in USA, but they exist, the americans are well treated here, you can walk and no one bother you, if you would have a problem , someone surelly would give you a hand to help, and I believe that this happen in most places. Obviously some places not for the war cicunstances.

 

[speedracer]

I guess less than in USA, but they exist, the americans are well threated here,

I think you mean "treated," not "threated."

 

[rafmed]

Thanks speed

 

[diamond]

Excellent thread Mr Z
I was thinking of posting a thread like this but you articulated the question better

My conclusion is this...
Look at these other countries as children -
some good
some bad
some beautiful
some ugly..

when these children get in over their heads/in a jam who do they call?
They call THEIR DADDY-THE USA,

As children look to a father these countries look to us..?

As father's get no thanks The USA never does either

DB9

 

[Lilly]

america is a continent you know.

i know where this post is coming from. i talk to a lot of international people too and get plenty of slag from them. but they understand the catch-22 we've got. do we "save"? or do we "allow" suffering? or is it even our business? who knows.


it's easy to get upset with everyone talking about the us's every move. but, honestly, were i the one to have posted each of raf's threads, would you call me unamerican?

 

[OzAurora]

Excellent thread Mr Z
I was thinking of posting a thread like this but you articulated the question better

My conclusion is this...
Look at these other countries as children -
some good
some bad
some beautiful
some ugly..

when these children get in over their heads/in a jam who do they call?
They call THEIR DADDY-THE USA,

As children look to a father these countries look to us..?

As father's get no thanks The USA never does either

DB9

Diamond you are a cool enough guy it seems, however I am going to try and restrain my tounge in response to this reply......OK in answer to your initial question spyplane, it is the arrogance that is expressed by many Americans and which was so eloquently displayed in the above quote by diamond that makes me for one get the shits with all things American...............I have never asked for their help and I think that American foregin policy since WW2 has so much to answer for, the Prime Minister of Australia may think George W is his Dadddy, but hell will freeze over before I would ever acknowledge Bush or anything American as my 'daddy', dont assume that the rest of the world are poor little defenseless children who need help, there really is a lot more to the world than all that is American, thank f@%k I am Australian

 

[Lilly]

there really is a lot more to the world than all that is American,

there IS?!

o right...*slaps forehead* we only THINK we rule the world...


oz..i am in absolute agreement with your post. it's the ego on so many americans that make the us look more ugly than it is. but, we aren't all that bad.

 

[Angela Harlem]

LMAO OzA. I am dying here, can you imagine anyone getting so hooked on Johnny? I look at some of the guys here, sorry to name names, but people like Z Edge, Bubba, Bama, Diamond. I cannot imagine anyone having that much faith in dickless little Johnny. Point is, we dont have that level of patriotism. I dont think America as a whole has an ego problem, and I think for the main part, specific Americans aren't all that blind about their country's faults. America is like anywhere else, its got its good and bad, does good and bad. Its just such a huge country and has such a large amount of influence, anything they do is noticed and picked apart by the rest of the world. I too, would be mighty pissed if anyone was this critical of Australia. We are lucky in a way that no one really gives adamn about us. Politically, we are weak. Let the rest of the world laugh at us. I'm happier this way. I sure as crap couldn't cope if johnny supporters showed up like they do with Bush. It would make me more than cringe lol.

The rest of the world will always pay attention to America. What they do is of importance to many. On the other hand, whether we are right in our criticisms, we should try and remember there are Americans out there who will be offended by constant bagging of the country they call home.

I didnt really have anything to add to this, I just wanted to say I'm pissing myself at the thought of John Howard having fans.

 

[OzAurora]

You are right Lilly- I know that there are decent Americans just as there are crap Australians, the thing that sucks is how gerealalities and or sterotypes can end up being a general concensus, I must admit that I was quite pissed off when I read DB9s original post, it was like a big slap in the face and I cant stand that kind of arrogance......

 

[Lilly]

You are right Lilly- I know that there are decent Americans just as there are crap Australians, the thing that sucks is how gerealalities and or sterotypes can end up being a general concensus, I must admit that I was quite pissed off when I read DB9s original post, it was like a big slap in the face and I cant stand that kind of arrogance......

oh, i am sorry, i in NO WAY meant to ease the sting of his post. just making sure you all know that not all americans share his view.

 

[The Wanderer]

actually, aren't Australians the juvenial delinquents of the family, that baggage hanging around after we divorced England?!

and there is no other conclusion but to say that Bono was speaking thru the eyes of America when he penned "Daddy's Gonna Pay For Your Crashed Car"

 

[zooropamanda]

baggage
yeah

 

[The Wanderer]

thieves and whatnot, or is it Thebes

 

[zooropamanda]

yes and we're all hicks too, dont forget that part

 

[The Wanderer]

no, I didnt say that, don't put words in my mouth

 

[diamond]

Ok Children, now listen Daddy just got in
First off do not take my analogy SO LITERALLY

2nd-Angela -
Who is John Howard?

3rdly-
No one need to suppose that I think America is superior to your country.
Heavens NO
We are arrogant yes

In the past we tried to superimpose our values too much.
I dont think this is the case NOW w/the fall of Communism ect

MY PT IS THIS-
With all the blessings, wealth and resources that America possesses we owe it to the rest of the world to lend a helping hand when needed. and when asked for-(I explained this to Lilly on AIM hrs ago..dunno why she forgot)..

If we are thanked -fine.
If we arent thanked that is fine as well.

Geneorsity and compassion SHOULD HAVE NO STRINGS.
Peace
Out-

(compassion just like from your daddy or fav uncle)
Dave

 

[zooropamanda]

2nd-Angela -
Who is John Howard?

bwahah u just proved her point

 

[Angela Harlem]

I thunk someone just proved OzA's point


John Howard = Prime Minister of Australia.

Prime Minister = leader from a country still attached at the hip to the Commonwealth.

Commonwealth = Countries inflicted with England's interfering.

 

[TylerDurden]

lol @ worshipping Johnny. Ive never understood that about Americans either, why they get so religious about their presidents. No other similar country does it with their leaders. Supporters yes, worshippers no. Or at least not to the same amount.

I think certainly from some countries the hate towards the US comes from jealousy, but it would be from poor countries being jealous of rich countries and the US is the best and 'loudest' example of a rich country.

However, coming from Western Europe, UK or Canada or Australia etc it wouldn't be jealousy, or at least 99% wouldn't be. Theres nothing you can do in the US really that you can't do in any of those countries. just as 'free', just as democratic, similar cultures, similar lifestyles. Any anti-Americanism from those countries probably mostly comes from the perceived arrogance of the US and a real frustration with US foreign policy, which very rarely takes in the concerns or opinions of other countries (look how 98% of the countries and institutions around the world are saying 'no' to Iraq, notice how the US doesn't notice), and always seeming to believe that there is one set of rules for them and another for the rest of the world (if the US does pull a 'first strike' against Iraq, would they then stand back and let India do it to Pakistan, or China to Taiwan? And if the US said 'no' to either of those countries, should they have to listen to the US?)

Hope this doesn't turn into an Iraq thread.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Z Edge/Spyplane/Love Muscle,
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that people who criticise some things about America (namely American foreign policy) are motivated by something other than jealousy.

I'm not jealous of America. I don't want to make my home country (UK) more like America. I'm not sure what Americans have that I might be jealous of. Sure I'd love it if U2 were in the UK more often but if I wanted to express that then I'd say "I wish U2 would tour near my home more often" not "I'm disgusted by America's involvement in putting General Pincohet in power."

I know some people brought up the fact that they've been accused of being anti-American, which is quite relevant to this thread. I don't really understand why people assume that if someone is critical of America it automatically means they hate everything about the country.

I'm sure you already know my views on America's foreign policy but perhaps you don't know that I spent an exchange year in the US because I wanted to learn more about the country, perhaps you don't know that many of my favourite musicians are American or that I love American TV shows or that I'm watching an American news channel right now. I'm not anti-American, if I hated America I wouldn't listen to American music or read American literature. I don't hate America, I just think the American government has done some very bad things in the past.

Tell me, when I say that Britain does something wrong, do you call me anti-British? When I say that I think Britain has behaved disgracefully towards Ireland for the last eight hundred years, am I anti-British? When I say that our higher education funding system is a disgrace, am I anti-British? Of course I'm not, and there are plenty of other criticisms I could add there, so why when I criticise America must I be accused of being anti-American?

 

[hiphop]

so why when I criticise America must I be accused of being anti-American?

Because to label you antiamerican is a safe way to downplay your arguments.

Being "antiamerican" has something shady, doesn?t it?

Huu huu be afraid, we may as well be linked to terrorism

@ your F117A spyplaning our eurofighter

 

[CannibalisticArtist]

Jealousy of America, blah blah (subconcious, ingrained and subtle arrogance) boo hoo why doesn't anyone love us as much as we love ourself?..etc zzzzzzzzzz.

yawn.

 

[Lilly]

i apologize for not being clear.

Ok Children, now listen Daddy just got in

MY PT IS THIS-
With all the blessings, wealth and resources that America possesses we owe it to the rest of the world to lend a helping hand when needed. and when asked for-(I explained this to Lilly on AIM hrs ago..dunno why she forgot)..

1. how derrogatory can you get? actually...i retract that question for fear of you trying to show me.


2. i didn't forget. if you remember, i never said "OHHH! ok, then you're SO right!! way to go!" i said that what you explained to me was what i figured you were saying.

despite my understanding (NOT agreeing or disagreeing, just understanding) it does not mean that i didn't find the post to be arrogant.