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Old 08-21-2002, 02:40 AM   #21
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yes and we're all hicks too, dont forget that part
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Old 08-21-2002, 02:56 AM   #22
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no, I didnt say that, don't put words in my mouth
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Old 08-21-2002, 03:43 AM   #23
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Ok Children, now listen Daddy just got in
First off do not take my analogy SO LITERALLY

2nd-Angela -
Who is John Howard?

3rdly-
No one need to suppose that I think America is superior to your country.
Heavens NO
We are arrogant yes

In the past we tried to superimpose our values too much.
I dont think this is the case NOW w/the fall of Communism ect

MY PT IS THIS-
With all the blessings, wealth and resources that America possesses we owe it to the rest of the world to lend a helping hand when needed. and when asked for-(I explained this to Lilly on AIM hrs ago..dunno why she forgot)..

If we are thanked -fine.
If we arent thanked that is fine as well.

Geneorsity and compassion SHOULD HAVE NO STRINGS.
Peace
Out-

(compassion just like from your daddy or fav uncle)
Dave
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Old 08-21-2002, 03:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
2nd-Angela -
Who is John Howard?

bwahah u just proved her point
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Old 08-21-2002, 03:50 AM   #25
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I thunk someone just proved OzA's point


John Howard = Prime Minister of Australia.

Prime Minister = leader from a country still attached at the hip to the Commonwealth.

Commonwealth = Countries inflicted with England's interfering.



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Old 08-21-2002, 03:57 AM   #26
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lol @ worshipping Johnny. Ive never understood that about Americans either, why they get so religious about their presidents. No other similar country does it with their leaders. Supporters yes, worshippers no. Or at least not to the same amount.

I think certainly from some countries the hate towards the US comes from jealousy, but it would be from poor countries being jealous of rich countries and the US is the best and 'loudest' example of a rich country.

However, coming from Western Europe, UK or Canada or Australia etc it wouldn't be jealousy, or at least 99% wouldn't be. Theres nothing you can do in the US really that you can't do in any of those countries. just as 'free', just as democratic, similar cultures, similar lifestyles. Any anti-Americanism from those countries probably mostly comes from the perceived arrogance of the US and a real frustration with US foreign policy, which very rarely takes in the concerns or opinions of other countries (look how 98% of the countries and institutions around the world are saying 'no' to Iraq, notice how the US doesn't notice), and always seeming to believe that there is one set of rules for them and another for the rest of the world (if the US does pull a 'first strike' against Iraq, would they then stand back and let India do it to Pakistan, or China to Taiwan? And if the US said 'no' to either of those countries, should they have to listen to the US?)

Hope this doesn't turn into an Iraq thread.
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Old 08-21-2002, 06:15 AM   #27
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Z Edge/Spyplane/Love Muscle,
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that people who criticise some things about America (namely American foreign policy) are motivated by something other than jealousy.

I'm not jealous of America. I don't want to make my home country (UK) more like America. I'm not sure what Americans have that I might be jealous of. Sure I'd love it if U2 were in the UK more often but if I wanted to express that then I'd say "I wish U2 would tour near my home more often" not "I'm disgusted by America's involvement in putting General Pincohet in power."

I know some people brought up the fact that they've been accused of being anti-American, which is quite relevant to this thread. I don't really understand why people assume that if someone is critical of America it automatically means they hate everything about the country.

I'm sure you already know my views on America's foreign policy but perhaps you don't know that I spent an exchange year in the US because I wanted to learn more about the country, perhaps you don't know that many of my favourite musicians are American or that I love American TV shows or that I'm watching an American news channel right now. I'm not anti-American, if I hated America I wouldn't listen to American music or read American literature. I don't hate America, I just think the American government has done some very bad things in the past.

Tell me, when I say that Britain does something wrong, do you call me anti-British? When I say that I think Britain has behaved disgracefully towards Ireland for the last eight hundred years, am I anti-British? When I say that our higher education funding system is a disgrace, am I anti-British? Of course I'm not, and there are plenty of other criticisms I could add there, so why when I criticise America must I be accused of being anti-American?
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Old 08-21-2002, 07:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
so why when I criticise America must I be accused of being anti-American?
Because to label you antiamerican is a safe way to downplay your arguments.

Being "antiamerican" has something shady, doesnīt it?

Huu huu be afraid, we may as well be linked to terrorism

@ your F117A spyplaning our eurofighter
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Old 08-21-2002, 04:21 PM   #29
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Re: Jealousy of America

Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane

Jealousy of America, blah blah (subconcious, ingrained and subtle arrogance) boo hoo why doesn't anyone love us as much as we love ourself?..etc zzzzzzzzzz.

yawn.
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Old 08-21-2002, 05:34 PM   #30
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i apologize for not being clear.

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Ok Children, now listen Daddy just got in

MY PT IS THIS-
With all the blessings, wealth and resources that America possesses we owe it to the rest of the world to lend a helping hand when needed. and when asked for-(I explained this to Lilly on AIM hrs ago..dunno why she forgot)..

1. how derrogatory can you get? actually...i retract that question for fear of you trying to show me.


2. i didn't forget. if you remember, i never said "OHHH! ok, then you're SO right!! way to go!" i said that what you explained to me was what i figured you were saying.

despite my understanding (NOT agreeing or disagreeing, just understanding) it does not mean that i didn't find the post to be arrogant.
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Old 08-21-2002, 05:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Z Edge/Spyplane/Love Muscle,
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that people who criticise some things about America (namely American foreign policy) are motivated by something other than jealousy.

I'm not jealous of America. I don't want to make my home country (UK) more like America. I'm not sure what Americans have that I might be jealous of. Sure I'd love it if U2 were in the UK more often but if I wanted to express that then I'd say "I wish U2 would tour near my home more often" not "I'm disgusted by America's involvement in putting General Pinochet in power."
Good point FizzingWhizzbees. Iīm not from UK but I frequently feel the same. So I would like to endorse what you said.

Quote:
I know some people brought up the fact that they've been accused of being anti-American, which is quite relevant to this thread. I don't really understand why people assume that if someone is critical of America it automatically means they hate everything about the country.
Or you are with us or you are against us...thatīs a blatant example of manichaeanism that leads to nowhere, if you allow me. Nobody is right 100% of the time. People fail. Itsīs from human nature and I know youīre human too.

I truly love many things about United States and its people, the same way I love many things about my country and my people. But that doesnīt make me blind for your faults and our faults as well. Itīs just that (and I know Iīm repeating myself) you are the most powerful and blessed nation on Earth. If someone can actually DO some good that would be you. Iīm pretty sure itīs the way Bono thinks as well.

Last but not least...Mr. Spyplane, about that gentle present you offered me in that other thread...I would like to say that Iīll take the but I allow myself to refuse the bombs. Thank you.
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Old 08-21-2002, 07:05 PM   #32
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wink

Perhaps, some children have problems w father figures?
Dunno.

DB9
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:06 PM   #33
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blech. i only wish i could vote more than once.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed


I think we get post from abuses in many countries, personally if you posted about abuses here ( and of course there are) I would try to document the cases, and the actions that would has been taken if that would be the case.
RUBBISH!

thats not even the point and you know it, even if it were true!


Quote:
About walking on Mexico City with the american flag...you could be walking dressed as Uncle Sam and no one would provoque you in the way you think, maybe some would laugh seriously, you can see some american flags once and then in people clothes, I guess less than in USA, but they exist, the americans are well treated here, you can walk and no one bother you, if you would have a problem , someone surelly would give you a hand to help, and I believe that this happen in most places. Obviously some places not for the war cicunstances.
Well I said I feel like if...

Of course the flags are on the shirts in Mexice, but i used it as an example from the tone of things here in FYM and what we see in the media....

IF you are going to take everything literally and try to make fun of it then don't bother replying to my posts.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:19 PM   #35
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Rubish? I'm dead serious.

I don't think I'm making fun of your last post, the Uncle Sam reference in any case is an attemp to tone down things, I'm serious about what I'm stating, I can see where you think is all vs USA, but I wish you could not see the post from me or others that you don't agree as personal attacks.

Peace.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:21 PM   #36
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Re: america is a continent you know.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly

it's easy to get upset with everyone talking about the us's every move. but, honestly, were i the one to have posted each of raf's threads, would you call me unamerican?
Lilly
As someone who has selflessly put my own life on the line I am offended when the comments and protests get to the point that they have.

I can take a lot, I have a high tolerance for many things.

Once that tolerance is reached then things start happening.

That level was reached in FYM a long time ago, remember; I didn't always come to this forum and I didn't always have Bush quotes in my sig and my avatar and post plane pics.

To answer your question, you would appear un-american to me if you posted the same trash as rafmed on a public forum. I wouldn't hold against you any for having those thoughts, as long as you were considerate of others and did not post them as people do here.

Once a person does that they should not whine and complain at the reaction they get.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:27 PM   #37
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z edge and raffie.

Both of you.

If you have a problem with each others posts I think you should discuss it in private.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by OzAurora


Diamond you are a cool enough guy it seems, however I am going to try and restrain my tounge in response to this reply......OK in answer to your initial question spyplane, it is the arrogance that is expressed by many Americans and which was so eloquently displayed in the above quote by diamond that makes me for one get the shits with all things American...............I have never asked for their help and I think that American foregin policy since WW2 has so much to answer for, the Prime Minister of Australia may think George W is his Dadddy, but hell will freeze over before I would ever acknowledge Bush or anything American as my 'daddy', dont assume that the rest of the world are poor little defenseless children who need help, there really is a lot more to the world than all that is American, thank f@%k I am Australian
Good for you Oz, I appreciate your candidness but that "arrogance" goes both ways you know.

I wish we would have not helped ANYONE since WWII and shut our doors too.

I think America would be a much more prosperous country if we would have ignored the rest of the world in our own self-intrest and blasted anyone that looked at us funny.

Arrogant-yes, but I dont really feel that way of course.

Name me how Australia has joined in the fight to rid the world of Terrorism?

How has Australia tried to rid the world of hunger?
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane
Name me how Australia has joined in the fight to rid the world of Terrorism?
but australia hasn't had their world trade center bombed. (even if they had one...)
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by TylerDurden
lol @ worshipping Johnny. Ive never understood that about Americans either, why they get so religious about their presidents. No other similar country does it with their leaders. Supporters yes, worshippers no. Or at least not to the same amount.
Open your eyes.
We have FAR FAR FAR more critics of our Presidents than supporters.

and worshippers? Thats funny- look at Iraq if yu want to see a case of blind worship of its leadership.



Quote:
Hope this doesn't turn into an Iraq thread.
me too
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