Iwo Jima Vets Blast Time's "Enviromental" Cover

[corianderstem]

I just spent the better (or worse) part of a week in an RV with my parents, listening to my dad go on endless rants anytime someone on the TV or radio said anything involving "global warming," "green" or "Earth Day."

2861U2 sounds EXACTLY like my dad, and now I'm suspicious that he's posting on this U2 fan site undercover.

[MaxFisher]

Despite the incessant bloviating and fear mongering regarding global warming, most Americans are making little to no change in their lives to curb the supposed crisis. People recycle their beer cans and plant a tree on Earth Day and post their support in political forums and then pat themselves on the back while they drive home in their SUV for being so eco-friendly. Often times when faced with this fact, many Climate Change hand wringers will make a 180 degree turn and argue that individual efforts aren’t really the solution and that government regulations/mandates are what will turn the tide. However, environmental issues consistently rank low on the list of most people’s concerns and in turn Washington will divert the majority of its attention to more hot button / urgent issues.

Since you’ve been taking a beating 2861U2, I’ll say that I applaud your continued efforts to argue for conservative ideals on FYM. However, as you've probably realized, this forum is more an outlet for spouting condescending demagogic platitudes than it is about nuanced debate. I do peruse FYM daily, but mainly to get the Left to Far Left view of world events. It's important for me to hear the other side of the coin. I post occasionally but a while back I realized that constructive discourse here is mostly a futile gesture. Many of those who frequently post here are clichés unto themselves so don’t waste too much time arguing politics over the internet. Life’s too short.

[2861U2]

Originally posted by MaxFisher


Since you’ve been taking a beating 2861U2, I’ll say that I applaud your continued efforts to argue for conservative ideals on FYM. However, as you've probably realized, this forum is more an outlet for spouting condescending demagogic platitudes than it is about nuanced debate. I do peruse FYM daily, but mainly to get the Left to Far Left view of world events. It's important for me to hear the other side of the coin. I post occasionally but a while back I realized that constructive discourse here is mostly a futile gesture. Many of those who frequently post here are clichés unto themselves so don’t waste too much time arguing politics over the internet. Life’s too short.

Thanks. I agree with all that. I do realize I'm vastly outnumbered here on almost every issue I can think, but it doesn't bother me.

And fear not, I'll post my side of this debate tomorrow. I've been really busy these few days.

[martha]

It's shocking, shocking! that U2 fans would be a liberal lot.

[MaxFisher]

Originally posted by martha
It's shocking, shocking! that U2 fans would be a liberal lot.

who said anything about it be "shocking"?

and for every liberal U2 fan I'll easily find you a conservative U2 fan.

[CTU2fan]

Originally posted by MaxFisher
I do peruse FYM daily, but mainly to get the Left to Far Left view of world events.

Do you really think most of the FYM regulars are left to far left? I'd say the forum is generally mainstream right to mainstream left, with a couple of libertarians. There might be some folks in here I'd call "far left", but if they are it doesn't show in their posts. I also don't see anyone who's clearly "far right" but that might be because I'm not sure what far right is anymore...is it classic free-market small-government capitalist or or big-government legislate morality theocracy?

[BVS]

Yeah the "far left" thing is hilarious...

[MaxFisher]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yeah the "far left" thing is hilarious...

I expected this response. Most liberals think their views are mainstream.

[BVS]

Originally posted by MaxFisher


I expected this response. Most liberals think their views are mainstream.

Generalize much?

Must just be my far left thinking, but I usually try and avoid ignorant generalizations.

[elevated_u2_fan]

Originally posted by 2861U2

I'd be glad too, if someone wants to start a different topic. It seems a little off-topic in this thread.

so, you don't want to post this research in this thread because it would be off topic?

[martha]

Originally posted by elevated_u2_fan


so, you don't want to post this research in this thread because it would be off topic?

Maybe it's more "interesting" than anyone suspected.

[martha]

Originally posted by MaxFisher

and for every liberal U2 fan I'll easily find you a conservative U2 fan.

Not here.

[MaxFisher]

Originally posted by martha


Not here.

thanks for proving my point!

[anitram]

Most people here who are not from the US are probably by your definition far far far far left.

By their local standards many of them may actually just be left of centre if not centrists.

[Vincent Vega]

Yeah, I guess my political position would be something like that:

[financeguy]

Originally posted by MaxFisher
Since you’ve been taking a beating 2861U2, I’ll say that I applaud your continued efforts to argue for conservative ideals on FYM.

This is not at all directed at you specifically, Max, or for that matter at 2861U2, but you've hit upon a pet gripe of mine. Basically, I cannot for the life of me understand why conservatism and neo-conservatism are assumed to be the same.

Originally posted by MaxFisher
However, as you've probably realized, this forum is more an outlet for spouting condescending demagogic platitudes than it is about nuanced debate. I do peruse FYM daily, but mainly to get the Left to Far Left view of world events.

I can certainly identify with what you have said here.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by anitram
Most people here who are not from the US are probably by your definition far far far far left.

By their local standards many of them may actually just be left of centre if not centrists.

That's probably quite true in general - though not of me personally. Though even still, there are a number of issues that I am way to the left of even the most moderate US Republican.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by CTU2fan
...I'm not sure what far right is anymore...is it classic free-market small-government capitalist or or big-government legislate morality theocracy?

I'd argue neither, it's probably more along the lines of the type of conservatism A_Wanderer has alluded to here:-

Originally posted by A_Wanderer
...But there is a type of conservatives for whom preserving the best of the past is replaced with reactionary sentiment, and thats plain ugly.

For example, Ron Paul, though clearly not a far rightist, unfortunately seemed to be attracting the approval of some far right elements.

Having said that, the fringe of the 'big-government legislate morality theocracy' types, the Christian Dominionsts, probably do qualify as far right, even though usually not avowed racists.

[BVS]

Originally posted by financeguy

I cannot for the life of me understand why conservatism and neo-conservatism are assumed to be the same.

I'm always amused by this as well, I think some have done a great job blurring the line and then selling it well to the American public, and now the younger generation doesn't even know there is a difference, they still use the slogans of old but don't really live by them.

[yolland]

Originally posted by financeguy
This is not at all directed at you specifically, Max, or for that matter at 2861U2, but you've hit upon a pet gripe of mine. Basically, I cannot for the life of me understand why conservatism and neo-conservatism are assumed to be the same.

I'm a bit confused--are you suggesting you see a distinctly 'neo'-conservative slant to their views on global warming specifically, or were you referring to FYM more generally?

Not trying to speak for either of them, but I think one reason for the imprecision may be that 'neoconservative' (and even more so, 'neocon') is often used, and perceived, here as a pejorative term--it's not uncommon to hear people, especially people who aren't conservative, use the word as if it means 'any particularly loathsome person who seems to be generally conservative'. Not unlike the way some people who would've comfortably identified as 'liberal' 25 years ago now prefer 'progressive' instead, at least in certain social environments--the word is too often pronounced as if it denotes despicable personal qualities rather than political stances. Another symptom of our highly polarized politics here, I suppose...