AEON said:
Yes, maybe I should throw out all of the works from those with Phd’s in Greek and Theology. After all, you have been studying this (objectively I’m sure) for six whole years. I must be crazy to think they may know a thing or two about their field!
Where did they get their Ph.D's from? What religion are these theologians? My problem with a lot of this, particularly amongst evangelical Protestant theologians, is that nearly all their work is based around supporting the traditional interpretations that they grew up believing. Yet, secular theologians, who feel no compulsion to treat the Bible any differently than they'd treat an ancient Greek text uncovered in an excavation, often come to a different conclusion.
All you need to do is look at the the New Oxford Annotated Bible.
The third edition is disliked by many fundamentalist and evangelical Protestants as well as traditional Catholics. They object to the assertion that passages in the Old Testament traditionally seen as referring to Jesus do not do so, and to the claim that 1 Corinthians 6 and other passages do not refer to homosexuality in their condemnations. Another objection is raised to the OAB because the editors adhere to contemporary views of Biblical criticism, and thus call into question the authorship of some books.
So, yes, maybe you should start throwing out some of your books.
About the only commonly accepted translation that has come out in the last few years is The Message – and that is a paraphrase, not meant for serious study.
But you
just quoted from a Bible that said exactly that! Who do you think "male prostitutes" (the phrasing used by your Bible, not mine) were in the Greco-Roman world? They were always part of a pagan temple rite! If you're expecting some hooker on a street corner, like in the modern era, then I'd suggest throwing out some more of your books.
To think that Paul would ONLY condemn feminine heterosexuals is ridiculous.
Why is that ridiculous? Because you would be forced to admit that the Greco-Roman world is not the same as the modern world? That you can't translate every archaic term into a modern equivalent? They weren't merely "feminine heterosexuals." It was a specific practice who had a specific role in Corinth's society. Since this is an epistle to the
Corinthians, they would have understood that "malakos" referred to a specific kind of person.
Corinth was infamous in the ancient world for its sexual debauchery. No different than some cities we now have in America. What is your point?
Yes, different. Yes, completely different. Their "sexual debauchery" had specific idolatrous and orgy connotations.
We are not talking about same-sex love. We are talking about same-sex-sex.
One black person offends a white racist, and all black people are bad. One white person offends a white racist, and he was just an isolated bad apple with the otherwise good white race.
And this kind of distinction makes a difference to me. The Bible condemns sexuality that is idolatrous, abusive, and devoid of any love. It does not condemn loving same-sex relationships, and, by extension, I see nothing wrong with loving same-sex sex.
So do I see condemnation of ancient prostitution and orgy practices? Yes. These are sex acts that are devoid of love, devoid of affection, devoid of a deeper connection. And they're even idolatrous most of the time to boot.
To make the larger stretch that these supposedly anti-gay passages are meant to condemn all homosexuality is an interpretation laced with prejudice.
Why?
Have you actually read the Bible? It is FILLED with love stories...
And when it comes to David and Jonathan and the Centurion and his "Slave," both stories show the virtues of same-sex love within a Biblical context.
Your personal feelings? Is there Scriptural evidence for this?
Do you believe, in a general sense, that the Holy Spirit continues to reveal new truth to modern civilization? I don't care whether you do or not, but there are some Christian religions that do, including my native Roman Catholicism.
As a matter of religious freedom, why does your view of Christianity automatically gain preference to the exclusion of all other Christian beliefs?
That was my point.
I am certainly aware that gay people exist. I am certainly aware that gay people can have a relationship with Christ. But I am also aware, as a third year seminary student – that your interpretation of Scripture is not accepted by any other groups other than the activist fringes.
I guess that means that the venerable New Oxford Annotated Bible was written by "activist fringes"? Or that the Roman Catholic Bible that I use--yes, from the homophobic old Catholic Church--has contextual footnotes written by "activist fringes"? My Catholic Bible's footnotes on 1 Corinthians is on par with what I stated: that they refer to archaic Greco-Roman institutions and practices.
I certainly think you WANT these verses to be as you have interpreted them – but that doesn’t make them true. You are casting off opinions of men that have dedicated their ENTIRE adult lives to interpreting Greek as if they are mere bigots with an agenda. That is simply not honest.
I do think that many people have spent their entire adult lives merely looking to prop up their religious traditions, and I do not believe that the spirit of academia--and that's what theology is supposed to be, an academic discipline, not mere religious study--would look kindly upon that.
Secular study of the Bible has revealed, at the very least, that there's quite a divide between how we'd translate the Bible if it were just another ancient text found in an archaeological excavation and how it is currently translated by many people, with all the baggage and stubbornness of tradition.