It's Brittany and Maddona's Fault

[Dreadsox]

[Q]Girls expelled for charging boys to watch them kiss


CANADIAN PRESS

MONTREAL - Two Grade 7 girls were "encouraged" to leave their school after they were caught charging money for a public kissing session in the school cafeteria.
The 12-year-olds charged boys $5 to watch the lunch-hour show late last year.

The father of one of the girls said his daughter was basically expelled for her actions.

"She was thrown out of school," the unidentified man said after calling a CJAD phone-in show.

"She wasn't allowed back to school. She was told she had to go to a different school."

The man said the girl's parents agreed to get counselling for their daughter.

The students apparently got the idea for the kiss after watching Britney Spears and Madonna kiss during last year's MTV awards. [/Q]

 

[TheGenericPoet]

Wow! I'm not saying its okay for the girls to be doing what they did, they're only minors- but expelling them seems terribly harsh. Why on earth wouldn't the principle call the parents in and together talk with the girls about it and why it concerns them. The extent of their punishment is draconian imho.

And hey, is a kiss between 2 women (Brittney & Madonna) really all that big of a deal in this day and age? Anybody remember the episode on Friends when Monica & Rachel did it to get their apt back?

 

[U2andPolitix]

i don't care if they were kissing, the thing is they were doing it for profit. but i agree...expultion is rather harsh. i can't stand school administrators, they are so overzealous, they take 'zero tolerence' WAY to far, ugh harsh memories are coming to me.

 

[kobayashi]

they could have very lucrative careers in montreal with that kind of stuff.

but seriously, expulsion doesnt teach these two girls the lesson in self respect they would seem to be in need of.

 

[Dreadsox]

they could have very lucrative careers in montreal with that kind of stuff.

but seriously, expulsion doesnt teach these two girls the lesson in self respect they would seem to be in need of.

That would probably be where the couciling comes in....

 

[Dreadsox]

i can't stand school administrators, they are so overzealous, they take 'zero tolerence' WAY to far, ugh harsh memories are coming to me.

Administrators have no choice in this day and age......

lawsuits are hanging over educators head if they do not take action.....

As an educator.....in the elementary school....we have to cover our asses in dealing with children who pass love notes these days because they can be construed as harassment.

Would I like to be less overzealous....yes....do I have a family to take care of...two children of my own to feed....yes....Is it worth me losing my job over by not enforcing the rules....I think not.

Thank goodness so far, most of the problems I have dealt with can be dealt with easily and the parents have been supportive.

 

[nbcrusader]

lawsuits are hanging over educators head if they do not take action.....

Lawsuits by parents who spend more time on lawsuit than they do raising their children

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Lawsuits by parents who spend more time on lawsuit than they do raising their children

Sad but true.

That was the one thing I hated when in school-there were so many things we couldn't do, or we could do...after we filled out some form or something, that is...for fear that some moron was going to file some lawsuit. Dreadsox, that whole love notes thing is so stupid-that's potentially harassment now? Gimme a break. What was it, that story a long time ago about a kid who got in trouble 'cause they kissed another kid on the playground or something? The big deal over that was ridiculous.

And the worst part is, if a parent who files a lawsuit wins, that really doesn't help for a school that may already be having some financial struggles.

Anyway, as for the point of this thread...yeah, expelling them was definitely rather drastic.

Angela

 

[LCK]

Lawsuits by parents who spend more time on lawsuit than they do raising their children

I work in an elementary school as well, and this statement is so sadly true.

 

[Dreadsox]

Dreadsox, that whole love notes thing is so stupid-that's potentially harassment now? Gimme a break.

I wish I were kidding......

Parent A calls the office.....speaks to my principle.
Parent A complains of notes given to her child by another Child B.

Child B and Child B's parents get called to the office and a discussion about harasssment.


I get called to the office and asked how I am not noticing the notes

 

[Dreadsox]

I am not certain they were expelled from the district...it appears they were moved to different buildings within the school system. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[LCK]

I wish I were kidding......

Parent A calls the office.....speaks to my principle.
Parent A complains of notes given to her child by another Child B.

Child B and Child B's parents get called to the office and a discussion about harasssment.


I get called to the office and asked how I am not noticing the notes

As I've mentioned in this thread, I work in an elementary school too, and I'll definitely back you up on this. Its shameful but true- this kind of thing goes on more often than most people would believe. What we used to call 'kissing tag' when I was a kid is now sexual harrassment (we're talking 6 & 7 year olds here) and my neck is in a noose if I'm on yard duty and don't immediately put a stop to it...even then there are phone calls by the vocal minority. If my impulse is to give a hurt or sad or teary eyed child a hug (which I do on instinct ) I'd better hope its never interpreted as an inappropriate hug or I can kiss my career goodbye. Its sad all round.

 

[melon]

i don't care if they were kissing, the thing is they were doing it for profit. but i agree...expultion is rather harsh. i can't stand school administrators, they are so overzealous, they take 'zero tolerence' WAY to far, ugh harsh memories are coming to me.

Homophobia is still incredibly rampant, and now you can see how it affects non-homosexuals in perceived homoerotic acts. There are plenty of examples of this phenomenon throughout the world.

Had that been a boy and a girl, they probably would have gotten a slap on the wrist, and that is what is sad.

Melon

 

[Dreadsox]

Homophobia is still incredibly rampant, and now you can see how it affects non-homosexuals in perceived homoerotic acts. There are plenty of examples of this phenomenon throughout the world.

Had that been a boy and a girl, they probably would have gotten a slap on the wrist, and that is what is sad.

Melon

In general I would agree with you but in this case I disagree.....

The charging probably had a lot to do with it.

Recently administrators here in our area in MA were ripped for not handling two heterosexual children having oral sex on a bus harsh enough which would seem to indicate that the public is not particulary happy about sexual activity no matter what the orientation. And again, the focus of the problem became the administrators handling of the case, and not the behavior of the children.

The charging money to view adds a new element into it.

 

[verte76]

Lawsuits by parents who spend more time on lawsuit than they do raising their children

Yep......that's too true.

 

[sue4u2]

I'm not so much worried about the act of kissing itself, but doing it for the $5. Then is is up to teachers to inform parents and counselors to advise young people, male or female of inappropiate behavior in a school setting. Parents aren't always dropping the ball since they probably had on idea this was going on till it happened. Brittney & Madonna aside, these are underage children and guidance is still needed in this case. I do have a problem when common sense isn't used with the "zero tolerance rules" it's just absurd sometimes.

 

[nbcrusader]

I wish I were kidding......

Parent A calls the office.....speaks to my principle.
Parent A complains of notes given to her child by another Child B.

Child B and Child B's parents get called to the office and a discussion about harasssment.


I get called to the office and asked how I am not noticing the notes

I've heard of this scenario in very young levels at school - claims of harassment by 1st graders.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I wish I were kidding......

Parent A calls the office.....speaks to my principle.
Parent A complains of notes given to her child by another Child B.

Child B and Child B's parents get called to the office and a discussion about harasssment.


I get called to the office and asked how I am not noticing the notes

.

For god's sake, kids passed notes to each other all the time when my parents were kids, and it wasn't a huge deal then (other than maybe a teacher being irked that you're passing a note during class when you should be listening), why is it such a huge deal now? Where is this "harassment" claim coming from, why are people seeing it as harassment?

Also feel bad for you, LCK, particularly about the hugging thing. My sister remembers giving a friend a hug once a long time ago, it was to comfort her for something, and a teacher told them to stop it.

Stop what? They weren't hurting anybody!

Some people in this country are so incredibly stupid, it's incredible.

Angela

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

What really bugs me about all these stories of children being accused of "harrassment" for comparatively innocent acts, is that at the same time, children seem to be permitted to behave in ways that would have been completely unthinkable just a few years ago.

It seems like now parents are more willing to believe that the teacher has been unfair to their child than to believe that their child might have actually behaved badly. My dad is a teacher and I'm absolutely amazed at some of the stories he's told me. Once he had a child who actually picked up a chair and THREW it across the room at my dad...but the best thing is that my dad was told he could lose his job if he refused to have the child in his classroom again. Apparently teachers now have to put up with being physically attacked by their students, and be threatened with losing their job if they object. He also has so many cases of a child's parents calling the school to complain that their child has been told off/asked to leave a class they were disrupting, etc. It must be just incomprehensible to them that their child could actually *deserve* to be told off.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

What really bugs me about all these stories of children being accused of "harrassment" for comparatively innocent acts, is that at the same time, children seem to be permitted to behave in ways that would have been completely unthinkable just a few years ago.

It seems like now parents are more willing to believe that the teacher has been unfair to their child than to believe that their child might have actually behaved badly. My dad is a teacher and I'm absolutely amazed at some of the stories he's told me. Once he had a child who actually picked up a chair and THREW it across the room at my dad...but the best thing is that my dad was told he could lose his job if he refused to have the child in his classroom again. Apparently teachers now have to put up with being physically attacked by their students, and be threatened with losing their job if they object. He also has so many cases of a child's parents calling the school to complain that their child has been told off/asked to leave a class they were disrupting, etc. It must be just incomprehensible to them that their child could actually *deserve* to be told off.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you there. That's absolutely ridiculous with the kid who threw the chair at your dad...kids like that deserve to be punished. I don't care what the reason was for the kid getting angry-kids will be angry at teachers sometimes, understandable-that gives them no right to potentially harm people like that.

Maybe that would explain why some of those school shootings went on...people may have wondered why the school didn't do something...well, if your post is correct, maybe they couldn't do anything. Maybe people threatened them to keep the kids in school or they'd lose their jobs or something.

It's just so frustrating that parents haven't taught their kids manners nowadays. In my old town (not the last one, the one before that), I remember kids disrupting classes all the time-blurting out irrelevant things, getting mouthy with the teachers, not doing their work, throwing things around the room (now, luckily, at that school, kids were allowed to be kicked out of a room, and possibly out of school, if they got to be that bad), and I would be sitting there and thinking, "Argh, would you shut up?" It just got so annoying.

But, then again, at that school, a lot of kids' parents were out until wee hours of the morning getting drunk and sleeping around with god knows who and doing all this other crap, so it's really no wonder that a lot of kids at school caused trouble. They had nobody at home to tell them to grow up and be mature.

How did it get to that point. How did a lot of kids' parents start to become so irresponsible?

Angela

 

[U2andPolitix]

let me clarify what i said...i had a burst of anger after reading that article. when i say administrators i mean those above the teachers. i have a great amount of respect for teachers and i wish i had the love for kids and teaching the way teachers do. what i mean is those like the principals and guidance counselors. not ALL are bad, but my experience in schools in 3 different states has been full of overzealous administrators. combine that with the overzealous parents who, as said earlier, spend more time on lawsuits than raising kids, and KABOOM.

 

[~*Buffalo*~]

I am not particularly comfortable with these girls kissing, but they must be, what, 12 years old? I do think their punishment is a bit harsh. At least someone should have explained to them why it was the wrong thing to do. I went to an all-girls schools and all the popular girls were kissing each other (totally innocently) all the time, and the teachers did nothing about it.

It's a sad situation. The fact is, these kids were probably doing what a lot of 12 year olds do - try to make some money. I remember trying all sorts of crazy plans to earn money when I was a kid. And, honestly, if parents can turn around a sue a school because a teacher hugged their child when they were hurt, in the scheme of things expelling these girls is a bit over the top.

 

[beegee]

For god's sake, kids passed notes to each other all the time when my parents were kids, and it wasn't a huge deal then (other than maybe a teacher being irked that you're passing a note during class when you should be listening), why is it such a huge deal now? Where is this "harassment" claim coming from, why are people seeing it as harassment?

note passing can very much be considered harassment. my ten year old daughter failed to invite a classmate to a birthday party last year. for three weeks this classmate sent note after note to my daughter calling her names such as "snob" and "bitch." it grew so out of hand that my daughter was making up excuses to stay home from school. it wasn't until i found a note in the laundry that i became aware of what was going on, and you'd better believe i brought the situation to the attention of the school counselor. immediately.

she was absolutely being harassed.

it's no different than if someone were sending you constant, uninvited emails.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I can't see any reason these girls should be expelled. A bit harsh is an understatement (not to pick your reply out in particular ~Buffalo~). The kissing itself has nothing wrong with it in any way, whether they are learning their sexuality - ie are lesbians or just doing it for a laugh out of innocence. So what. Charging for it is a bit wrong, but then is it really?, perhaps they should give the money back to the boys who paid. Everything else about this is ridiculous.
Back in year 6, our school went on a huge day long bush walk as we did every term and a friend of mine and a boy in our class decided to get married. We were all about 11 or 12. It ended up such a huge event, even the teachers attended. Our own class teacher 'officiated'. These days, would it have caused world news? Possibly, as our teacher would have been looked upon as a dirty old man and one who was encouraging such immoral behaviour.

The only crime here is innocence is long gone and now everything is a crime. Everything and everyone is suable. Everything offends someone. Anyone can find wrong in everything and I dont think we as a society are any better off for it. It is an absolute shame.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

note passing can very much be considered harassment. my ten year old daughter failed to invite a classmate to a birthday party last year. for three weeks this classmate sent note after note to my daughter calling her names such as "snob" and "bitch." it grew so out of hand that my daughter was making up excuses to stay home from school. it wasn't until i found a note in the laundry that i became aware of what was going on, and you'd better believe i brought the situation to the attention of the school counselor. immediately.

she was absolutely being harassed.

it's no different than if someone were sending you constant, uninvited emails.

. Wow. That's scary...and sad. . Glad that it was taken care of.

I guess I should've clarified...I was referring more to the love notes that Dreadsox mentioned. But even so, I didn't think about the scenario you shared. That definitely would qualify as harassment.

Angela

 

[Dreadsox]

Love notes can also make someone feel uncomfortable, especially if they are not wanted. That was the point the parent was making.

 

[sue4u2]

Things are just so much different these day's and innocent love letters can be a prelude to "if I can't have you, no one will" situations. I even have problems with kissing booths to raise money, if they even still do that these days. I don't know when the "end of the innocent" began but I'm afraid things have gone too far so fast that there is no going back. There has to be guidelines in schools and it has to apply to all or none. And regardless of what a great deal of people believe, some parents are just not capable of handling these issues. Therefore it's up to school's and I must say I would rather it be left up to a teacher, in most case's, rather than the society of Brittney & Madonna.

 

[Dreadsox]

Today's love notes have third and fourth graders writing things that we would never have dreamed of saying aloud or even thinking.

I cannot turn the TV on in my house unsupervised PERIOD. That is the sad sad truth. Forget Springer ECT.....Commercials for the TV Shows cross the line in my opinion.

Peace out.....

 

[~*Buffalo*~]

Today's love notes have third and fourth graders writing things that we would never have dreamed of saying aloud or even thinking.

That's so true. I baby-sit for a 10 year girl and I can't believe some of the things she tells me goes on at her school.

My parents were pretty strict about what I could and couldn't watch or listen to. I never saw any American shows (apart from educational ones) until I was in high school, nor did I listen to anything other than classical music. Whether or not that helped me to become an upright, moral citizen of the world today remains debatable, but I would definitely say I now have higher standards than a lot of people my age.

So, in response to the thread's title ... Britney and Madonna aren't especially good role models, with or without the kissing part. Britney et al inspired a whole legion of little girls to think nothing of baring their midriffs and wearing layers of makeup. Maybe, instead of expelling kids who copy them, there should be more of an effort to encourage better role models for kids to imitate.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Eh...I don't think Britney and Madonna are necessarily to blame for the way kids act today. Kids would act the way they do regardless of what some musician did.

And even so...so kids decide to wear shirts that show their stomachs and makeup...everything's still covered that needs to be, so I really don't see the problem there.

The parents are the ones who need to be taking responsiblity and being good role models for their kids. It's not celebrities' jobs to baby-sit the children of America.

Besides, while some kids do wind up being great citizens even with strict parents, like yourself, there's still other kids who will only want to rebel against the strictness of their household. Since my parents have never been strict about what I watched or listened to, I have no real need to rebel against them, because nothing was hidden from me.

Angela