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Old 10-23-2007, 01:37 PM   #101
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thinkprogress.org

Conservatives Attack Gay Dumbledore; Claim Vindication For Jerry Falwell’s Homophobia

On Friday, British author J.K. Rowling revealed for the first time that Albus Dumbledore, one of the central heroes in the record-breaking Harry Potter series, is in fact a gay man. Asked if Dumbledore, “who believed in the prevailing power of love,” had ever fallen “in love himself,” Rowling said that he once had with another male wizard.

While Rowling considers her novels to be a “prolonged argument for tolerance” and most fans were “thrilled with the announcement,” some conservative blogs are criticizing the revelation:

- Psycheout at Blogs 4 Brownback called it “revolting,” saying “Dumbledore is a gay homosexual who doesn’t deserve to live on God’s green earth.”

- At Redstate, dvdmsr says the revelation means that “Dumbledore was more flawed than I thought.”

- Don Surber wondered why the audience would “applaud” the revelation and suggested that Rowling was “knock[ing] the Christians” to “sell books.”



One prominent conservative blog, Newsbusters, is claiming that the revelation somehow vindicates the late Rev. Jerry Falwell, who was showered with ridicule in 1999 after declaring that one of the Teletubbies, Tinky Winky, was gay. Mark Finkelstein, a Republican official in upstate New York, writes that “somewhere, Jerry Falwell is smiling” about the news:

What’s that? It now turns out that Dumbledore is gay? That guy who was the headmaster at Harry Potter’s Hogwarts? Author J.K. Rowling said so herself? […]

And while Falwell was thoroughly lambasted in the MSM for his suggestion, the Times tells us that Rowlings’s revelation inspired “applause.”

Somewhere, Jerry Falwell is smiling.



First, Harry Potter and the Teletubbies are completely unrelated. The sexual orientation of a character in one fictional world cannot vindicate claims about the sexual orientation of a separate character in a separate fictional world.

Even if Finkelstein’s larger point is that Falwell was right that some children’s entertainment include “undisclosed gay characters,” Falwell was wrong in his claim that the presence of a gay character is “damaging to the moral lives of children.” As Jacob Weisberg wrote in 1999, “there’s no scientific or psychological basis” for that claim:

There’s no scientific or psychological basis for believing that children are affected in their sexual development or eventual sexual orientation by exposure to homosexuality–on television or in real life. If the creators of cartoons are intentionally or unintentionally giving children the idea that gay people are part of the big, happy human family, that’s a good thing, not a bad one.

The audience applauded Rowling’s message because it was one of tolerance; Falwell was criticized because his one was of hatred, based on gay stereotypes. The need for tolerance is reinforced by the conservative blogosphere’s reaction to a fictional character being gay.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:39 PM   #102
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it's very true about children. children don't think there's anything wrong with a man who loves a man or a woman who loves a woman until they are told that there's something wrong with it.

they keep it simple. i remember a pre-kindergarten teacher telling me that she was once having the kids settle down for nap, and one of the girls said, "you know what Mrs. So-and-So? sometimes, a girl can love a girl." and she said, "yes, that's right, sometimes that's true."

and that was the end of it. that's all it needs to be.

but i'm glad we're having this thread. it sort of exposes where much of homophobia comes from. straight people's fear of a sexuality different from their own. because, apparently, that's all some people see when they hear the word gay. they're the one's overreacting to their own sex-obsessed thoughts.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:39 PM   #103
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Originally posted by Diemen


Of all the ignorant crap that's been said in this thread, "furthering the homosexual agenda" takes the cake.

I really don't think I can say much more without crossing the line.

Unbelievable.
Say what you want, but there´s this whole "homosexual agenda" where everyone is trying to put at least one gay character or one gay person in every show, book. It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:40 PM   #104
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Originally posted by melon
I'd like to think that most people have no latent sexual attraction to the children that they're around...but I get the sense like a lot of the heterosexual men around here are constantly holding themselves back from wanting to have sex with them. If that's the case, then you guys have the problem, and stop scapegoating homosexuals for your own perversions!
Yes, because of course the right way to counteract prejudice is more prejudice
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:42 PM   #105
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
So you had a problem with the "token black guy" too?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:43 PM   #106
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Yes, because of course the right way to counteract prejudice is more prejudice
Wow, you really missed his point didn't you?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:43 PM   #107
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And isn´t it disturbing that the audience would applaud the fact that he´s gay? Seriously, there´s this whole martyrdom associated with being gay that shouldn´t exist anymore.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:44 PM   #108
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Say what you want, but there´s this whole "homosexual agenda" where everyone is trying to put at least one gay character or one gay person in every show, book. It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.


i know. i get so irritated when they include the "token latino."

we should work to keep things straighter, whiter, male-er.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:44 PM   #109
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Hey Irvine511 and Melon, how often do you all meet for the homosexual agenda seminars?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:45 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Say what you want, but there´s this whole "homosexual agenda" where everyone is trying to put at least one gay character or one gay person in every show, book. It´s no longer the "token black guy" but the "token gay guy". And that´s what I have a problem with. There´s a time and place for everything and HP books shouldn´t have been used for that.
Is there a hetero agenda? There's far more than at least one straight character in books and tv and movies. There's a time and place for representing all humans in all literature. Dumbledore isn't having explicit sex or any kind of sex, so what's the problem? We should shelter kids so much that we don't even want them reading books that have nurturing characters who just happen to be gay? Are they going to pretend there aren't gay people in the world too?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:45 PM   #111
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
And isn´t it disturbing that the audience would applaud the fact that he´s gay? Seriously, there´s this whole martyrdom associated with being gay that shouldn´t exist anymore.


the appaluse, i think is for the bravery that Rowling showed, and her more expansive worldview, and her conviction that loveable characters can be gay, and that being gay isn't just about sex.

and, given your reaction, they were right -- i guess, sadly, we do have to call it brave.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:46 PM   #112
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Hey Irvine511 and Melon, how often do you all meet for the homosexual agenda seminars?


twice monthly. i'd show you the secret handshake, but i don't want Larry Craig to get any ideas.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:47 PM   #113
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Wow, you really missed his point didn't you?
I got his point perfectly, thanks very much, but I'm sure if I ever struggle to understand anything here I'll just ask you and you can use your superior brain function to explain it to me.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:48 PM   #114
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
And isn´t it disturbing that the audience would applaud the fact that he´s gay? Seriously, there´s this whole martyrdom associated with being gay that shouldn´t exist anymore.
I think they were applauding that an author is open enough to include all walks of life.

Damn her for not wanting to shelter, repress, and keep our children ignorant!!!

Wow, you just don't get it do you?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #115
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I got his point perfectly
Then why would you think it to be a stereotype? It was obviously satirical in keeping with the fearful mindsets of some of the posters in here.

But nice try.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:52 PM   #116
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I think they were applauding that an author is open enough to include all walks of life.

Damn her for not wanting to shelter, repress, and keep our children ignorant!!!

Wow, you just don't get it do you?


Actually, I don´t.

And I maintain that it was completely pointless to have Dumbledore be gay besides the fact that she just wanted to help "the cause" (can´t call it "agenda" anymore) of having more tolerance towards homosexuals. I have no problem with tolerance. I just have a problem with using a children´s book to further political views about sexuality.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:53 PM   #117
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy




Actually, I don´t.

And I maintain that it was completely pointless to have Dumbledore be gay besides the fact that she just wanted to help "the cause" (can´t call it "agenda" anymore) of having more tolerance towards homosexuals. I have no problem with tolerance. I just have a problem with using a children´s book to further political views about sexuality.
why do you not choose to respond to the questions Irvine and I have asked you? do you have your own agenda??
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:55 PM   #118
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Actually, I don´t.

And I maintain that it was completely pointless to have Dumbledore be gay besides the fact that she just wanted to help "the cause" (can´t call it "agenda" anymore) of having more tolerance towards homosexuals. I have no problem with tolerance. I just have a problem with using a children´s book to further political views about sexuality.
Well it's apparent that you don't. The only people who make someone's sexuality a political are conservatives.

Children don't care. Children could deal with having a character that was gay without being proccupied with him, how did you so elequantly put it, that's right..."bent over and taking it like a man". You are the one who has a problem, not the children, and not the conspiracy agenda.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:56 PM   #119
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy




Actually, I don´t.

And I maintain that it was completely pointless to have Dumbledore be gay besides the fact that she just wanted to help "the cause" (can´t call it "agenda" anymore) of having more tolerance towards homosexuals. I have no problem with tolerance. I just have a problem with using a children´s book to further political views about sexuality.


firstly, there's no logical "view" on homosexuality. it's like having a "view" on red hair or blue eyes or being left-handed.

secondly, i find that it actually deepens Dumbledore's character (again, not knowing much about all this) and gives him more genuine pathos, and that's what she's done -- she points to his great tragedy, unrequited, thrwarted love, which is as universal a literary theme as anything else.

if anything, the "agenda" of the Potter novels is an anti-Bush, anti-Blair, anti-establishment one, right? isn't that what Imelda Staunton's character is all about?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:57 PM   #120
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Originally posted by unico


why do you not choose to respond to the questions Irvine and I have asked you? do you have your own agenda??
´


I´ve read through this thread and have just posted what I could add on the subject but I´ll gladly answer any questions you ask me.
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