Is there room for sexuality in children´s books?

[VintagePunk]

Originally posted by U2girl



Vintage Punk: yes, she answered other questions, but to be fair, none had quote the major impact of this answer. While "did he ever fall in love" and "did he ever find true love" isn't the same, the answer could, then, be "yes", then explain the details in the encyclopedia.

Again, her simply replying "yes" to the question without elaboration would go against her M.O. since the book was published. Since that time, she has seemed quite eager to share information when asked about characters, plot lines, or her writing process. Why should the information about Dumbledore be an exception?

I can't bring myself to worry about those who are so narrow-minded that they wouldn't read the book because of this, and I suspect JK feels the same way. It's their loss.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by U2girl

Or, in a more near future, that kids that liked the books may be banned from watching the last two movies. See what I mean ? I know the adults that were anti-Potter from day one will stil dislike it, I just think there is a considerable crack coming between fans, present and potential/future. It's not about sales.

because the best way to combat prejudice is to run away from confrontation and try not to upset the apple cart.

[Diemen]

Originally posted by U2girl
Vintage Punk: yes, she answered other questions, but to be fair, none had quote the major impact of this answer. While "did he ever fall in love" and "did he ever find true love" isn't the same, the answer could, then, be "yes", then explain the details in the encyclopedia.

Why should she not give the question a full answer in person? Because of the ignorant, bigotted and/or uninformed? How are we as a society going to progress if we constantly cater to the bigots?

And where do you draw the line? Should authors also not admit that their characters are minorities? Surely there are some bigots who would refuse to buy a book if it's main character was black, mexican, asian, etc... Stop writing characters that have interracial marriages as well, right?

This line of thinking - this, 'she shouldn't say things because the ignorant will take offense' is just completely irrational.

[BVS]

Originally posted by U2girl


Well, bogus or not, people will have different opinions (or reactions, if you prefer) to this particular bit of backstory. After all, it carries more weight than, say, the hero of the story wearing glasses.

I wish none of her readers (ie, the fanbase that has all 7 books and goes on sites etc...) wouldn't react negatively but some do, and I just think it's too bad that the story that got millions of young people into reading again will not be read anymore (in some cases) or not even be read at all with some kid in, say, 2015: "Can I read/buy HP, Mum/Dad?" "No, because of Dumbledore". Or, in a more near future, that kids that liked the books may be banned from watching the last two movies. See what I mean ? I know the adults that were anti-Potter from day one will stil dislike it, I just think there is a considerable crack coming between fans, present and potential/future. It's not about sales.

So send them back to the closet in order to appease those that can't handle it?

Basically you and BEB believe in the same thing.

I don't think she'll have any problem with future readers. Society is slowing growing up, yes there will always be the cc's don't read anything Dobson didn't write, but honestly I don't think she cares. As far as current readers, I'm sure a few parents may not buy the book for kids, but if their kids are hooked they'll read it, they'll find a way. Like I said, most kids don't care.

Screw appeasing the bigots!

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Diemen


And again, any parent who forbids their child from reading or seeing the movie because of this is a bigot to begin with, so I'm sure JK won't shed too many tears over the lost sales.

So forget the child too ?

If a parent says "I don't want to read this", that is their choice, however ignorant it may be, it just bothers me the child will get cut out too, and not even be given a chance. That's all.

[BVS]

Originally posted by U2girl


So forget the child too ?

If a parent says "I don't want to read this", that is their choice, however ignorant it may be, it just bothers me the child will get cut out too, and not even be given a chance. That's all.

There's libraries or they will find a way to borrow the book, come on weren't you ever a kid?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by U2girl


So forget the child too ?

If a parent says "I don't want to read this", that is their choice, however ignorant it may be, it just bothers me the child will get cut out too, and not even be given a chance. That's all.

and then the child will grow up, and get a credit card, and order it from Amazon, and read it to see what she's been missing all these years.



the best way to make a child want something is to tell her she can't have it.

[corianderstem]

I used to buy Harlequin romances from the local Goodwill as a teen, and hide them under my mattress.

Mom didn't want me reading them, I read them anyway, and I turned out just fine. The sex scenes didn't make me into some wanton harlot.

(Neither did listening to Madonna's "Like a Virgin." When my mom objected to my buying a copy of the 45, I rolled my eyes and told her I only liked it for the beat. )

Anyway, to the topic at hand, if the kid wants to read it, they will find a way to read it, despite what their parents say. Which is what they should do. God forbid some child believes that something they read will turn them evil. Or - worse - teh gay!!!

[phillyfan26]

Originally posted by U2girl
So forget the child too ?

If a parent says "I don't want to read this", that is their choice, however ignorant it may be, it just bothers me the child will get cut out too, and not even be given a chance. That's all.

Originally posted by phillyfan26
Hasn't it been proven by book banning that kids are more interested in reading books they aren't allowed to, anyway?

[U2girl]

Irvine: and until they grow up ? Maybe HP won't excite them anymore once they read it.

Bonovoxsupastar and phillyfan: that may be, but aren't you missing the parent (control) factor ?

[Dreadsox]

Originally posted by Irvine511


however, perhaps Rowling is more focused on the integrity of her characters than she is on maximizing her book sales?

I disagree with you here my friend. Pretty much everything else you say I agree with.

She was more concerned with sales. If she had outed him, while she was writing, it would have impacted quite a bit. Outing him after the fact, is indeed a sign of weakness on her part. The series is over, there was no reason to not include it in book 7.

Just my opnion,

[Vincent Vega]

Well, if they grow up and don't get excited by the book anymore because one of the characters is revealed to be gay... then so be it!
That's not the problem of the author, and it's not her intention to cater to the intolerant.
If they don't like book x, they should read book y. If the reason for not liking a book is that stupid, well, that kid has some real problems.

[VintagePunk]

Originally posted by Dreadsox


I disagree with you here my friend. Pretty much everything else you say I agree with.

She was more concerned with sales. If she had outed him, while she was writing, it would have impacted quite a bit. Outing him after the fact, is indeed a sign of weakness on her part. The series is over, there was no reason to not include it in book 7.

Just my opnion,

I think there was very good reason not to address it in the book, other than the brief allusion she made to it.

The story is told from Harry's perspective. Without giving too much away plot-wise, a great deal of this book has to do with Harry learning things about Dumbledore's past, while regretting that he didn't have the foresight to get to know more about Dumbledore on a personal level, while he was alive. Throughout the series, Dumbledore was quite a private person, and he didn't volunteer much about himself, personally. Most of what Harry did eventually learn about Dumbledore kind of fell under the umbrella of Dumbledore's actions - and, from what we've learned, Dumbledore never acted on his 'infatuation' in a public way, that others would have been aware of. In other words, the vehicles chosen to expose Dumbledore's past did not have access to his personal, innermost feelings, all they knew was that for a time in his youth, Dumbledore took part in an unlikely friendship. One could argue that it would have been inorganic to stick in an overt "Dumbledore is teh gay" in the story, it just didn't fit.

As for her reasoning for not making it overt in the story being financially motivated, I just don't see it. Had she done so, she may have lost a few sales from people who didn't buy the book immediately, but I suspect those numbers would have been negligible. And, by stating this now, she's also risking future sales, sales of tickets and dvds for the next two movies, along with sales of the Potter-verse encyclopedia she's going to write in the future. To me, it just doesn't seem to jibe with someone who's financially motivated.

[anitram]

There is a helluva lot of imputed intent being tossed around in this thread, and not just by one side.

[Dreadsox]

I see your point Vintage. Well written point. I have spent so much time reading these books with students, book clubs, my own children....I loved them, will continue to love them....and I am glad she implied it subtlely in the book. If it had been overt, I am not sure how much resistance there would have been. On a side bar, my wife, ran a book club exclusively around these books for years. Students were on waiting lists to get in. One of the best gifts a student ever gave her was a wand that she and her father made....it is incredible the detail, down to drilling a hole and putting a feather in the wand.

This woman has done more for students interest in literature than any childrens author in my life.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by Dreadsox
This woman has done more for students interest in literature than any childrens author in my life.

i've never read a single HP book, nor am i interested, but i am very, very glad they exist.

i hope to discover them with a child one day.

[VintagePunk]

Originally posted by Dreadsox
I see your point Vintage. Well written point. I have spent so much time reading these books with students, book clubs, my own children....I loved them, will continue to love them....and I am glad she implied it subtlely in the book. If it had been overt, I am not sure how much resistance there would have been. On a side bar, my wife, ran a book club exclusively around these books for years. Students were on waiting lists to get in. One of the best gifts a student ever gave her was a wand that she and her father made....it is incredible the detail, down to drilling a hole and putting a feather in the wand.

This woman has done more for students interest in literature than any childrens author in my life.

What a sweet gift to your wife!

I can certainly understand the questioning of her motives. My first reaction upon hearing it on the weekend was "Wtf? How does this fit in with the plot?" I was quite disturbed. Upon reading her original and subsequent statements and considering the plot ramifications, it makes perfect sense to me, and has added yet another layer of complexity for me. I applaud what she's done.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Harry Potter was very popular at the library I worked at. It made me happy to see that and other books that some people consider "evil" or whatever being checked out on a regular basis.

If a parent doesn't want their kids to read "Harry Potter" or anything else for whatever reason, that's their choice. I strongly disagree, but they're the parent, they have the right to raise their child their own way. I just hope that those same parents realize that their children may one day rebel against them and search out this "forbidden" material themselves (thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, people, for realizing that banning things only makes them more popular. I long for the day when the rest of the world catches on to that obvious concept). Either that, or those kids will be very ill-prepared for dealing with the real world. Don't act so shocked when either of those scenarios happens later.

Course, hopefully one day we'll get to a point where this sort of thing won't even be an issue anymore. That would be wonderful.

Angela

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally posted by Irvine511
i've never read a single HP book, nor am i interested, but i am very, very glad they exist.

i hope to discover them with a child one day.

I started reading one a long time ago and liked what I had read, but for some reason I just never got around to finishing it or going further into the series. I'd love to pick up where I left off, and I too have the same hopes you do regarding discovering them with a child.

And speaking of children, one of my favorite things about working at that aforementioned library was when I'd be in the children's section and see kids reading books I used to love when I was a kid. Just knowing that stuff's still popular all these years later-it's pretty cool.

Angela

[VintagePunk]

Originally posted by Irvine511



i've never read a single HP book, nor am i interested, but i am very, very glad they exist.

i hope to discover them with a child one day.

Up until about the 4th book, I thought of them as delightful children's stories, and my daughter had to goad me into reading each new release. I was wrong, they're so much more than that. I reread the entire series over the summer with a new appreciation for the earlier books.