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Old 10-19-2008, 07:19 PM   #881
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I think Sarah is much more attractive than Tina Fey.

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If she were intelligent and funny, maybe, but as she is she’s got absolutely nothing on Tina Fey. I don’t find narrow minded morons all that attractive. She did do well on SNL though.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:34 AM   #882
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By MARK LEIBOVICH
New York Times, October 18



BANGOR, Maine — It is not unusual for fans of Sarah Palin to shout out to the Alaska governor in the midst of her stump speeches. It is noteworthy, however, that the crowds are heavily male.

“You rock me out, Sarah,” yelled one man, wearing a red-checked hunting jacket as Ms. Palin, the Republican vice presidential candidate, strode into an airplane hangar here on Thursday. He held a homemade “Dudes for Sarah” sign and wore a National Rifle Association hat. Kenny Loggins’s Danger Zone blared over the loudspeakers, and the man even danced a little—yes, a guy in an NRA hat dancing in a hangar, kind of a Sarah Palin rally thing.

“I feel like I’m at home,” Ms. Palin said, looking out at a boisterous crowd of about 6000. “I see the Carhartts and the steel-toed boots,” she said, the first reference being to a clothing brand favored by construction workers and the burly types who make up much of the “Sarah Dude” population. “You guys are great,” she said while signing autographs.

Guys think Ms. Palin is great, too, or at least many of those who come to hear her. They sometimes go to extraordinary lengths. “I woke up at 2 AM so I could get my work done before 6 and get here by 7,” said Mike Spencer, a chef from Dexter, Maine. Mr. Spencer waited in the chilly hangar—in a “Nobama” T-shirt—for almost three hours.

At the height of Palinmania, soon after she made her national debut in September, Ms. Palin’s popularity among men was striking. Her favorability ratings were higher among men than women (44% to 36%), according to a New York Times poll, even though she was chosen in part because of her expected appeal to women. Since then, Ms. Palin has endured a tough month politically, and her favorability ratings have dropped among both sexes, but more so among men (down 13 points, to 31% in the latest Times poll.)

She has been widely attacked, even by a growing number of conservatives, as being essentially unserious and uncurious. “She doesn’t think aloud. She just...says things,” the Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan wrote Friday. “She does not speak seriously but attempts to excite sensation.”

All the while, Ms. Palin’s stoutest defenders are often the Joe Sixpacks in her crowds, who shrug off her critics, ridiculers and perceived adversaries in the news media. They say they appreciate Ms. Palin for, above all else, how “real” and “like us” she is. “Katie Couric and Tina Fey are going to do their thing, but it doesn’t bother me at all,” said Rob McLain, an insurance agent from Avon, IN, who attended a packed Palin rally at an amphitheatre in Indiana on Friday night. Mr. McLain wore a “Proud to be voting for a hot chick” button and was joined by his wife, Shannan (“Read my lipstick” button on lapel), and his 6-week-old son, Jaxon (“Nobama” button on beanie). “The criticism is part of the process,” Mr. McLain said, adding of Ms. Palin, “Who can’t trust a mother?”

The testosterone flows at many of her events. Head-banging guitar chords greet her: she entered a fund-raiser in North Carolina on Thursday to the decidedly un-dainty chords of AC/DC’s Thunderstruck. “That was kinda cool,” she marveled from the stage. Everyone laughed. The event raised $800,000.

While there are plenty of women, including wives and daughters of male fans, at Ms. Palin’s appearances, they acknowledge they are outnumbered. “This is not a ladies' campaign,” declared Linda Teegan at a rally in Weirs Beach, NH, on Wednesday. She was taking a crowd snapshot. “There seem to be lots and lots of guys here,” she said. “I’d guess 70-30, maybe 65-35, men to women. It’s quite noticeable to me.”

The dudes tend to make themselves noticed. “You tell ’em baby,” a man yelled out at a rally Wednesday night on a high school football field in Salem, NH. And Ms. Palin tells ’em, peppering her rallies with references to guy-themed stuff—hunting, fishing, hockey. She introduced her husband, Todd, as Alaska’s First Dude. “He is a guy who knows how to work with his hands,” she said to loud applause. Her recent events drew scruffy high-schoolers in backward baseball caps, tank-topped bikers in bandanas and long-bearded veterans in berets. They crashed the rope line for photos and autographs. “Marry me, Sarah,” a man implored in Weirs Beach, NH, while Ms. Palin held up a tow-headed toddler and patted his little chest. She ignored, or didn’t hear, the proposal, but signed the dude’s ratty baseball cap.

Yes, some men come to ogle the candidate, too. “She’s beautiful,” said a man wearing a John Deere T-shirt in Weirs Beach. “I came here to look at her,” he said, and his admiration for Ms. Palin’s appearance became more and more animated. Sheepish over his ogling, he declined to give his real name (“Just call me ‘John Deere’ ”).

But some male fans do seem to feel a deeper connection to Ms. Palin. To a surprising degree, they mention the unusual nature of her candidacy, the chance to make history, break the glass ceiling. “They bear us children, they risk their lives to give us birth, so maybe it’s time we let a woman lead us,” said Larry Hawkins, a former truck driver attending a rally late Thursday at Elon University in North Carolina. Mr. Hawkins said he would rather vote for Ms. Palin than for “McCain and Obama combined.” Men have done plenty to mess up the country, he said. “The sexual drives and big egos of male leaders have gotten in the way of politics in this country.” Mr. Hawkins said he talked to fellow truckers, and a lot of them feel the same way. “They think it’s time for a woman, too,” he said. “This one. Palin is our kind of woman.” There is a kind of “conservative feminism” here, and several men cite the appeal of Ms. Palin as a can-do caretaker. She can be glimpsed lugging an overstuffed bag of books, papers and baby supplies onto her plane and bottle feeding her infant son, Trig. “I love the idea of someone like her being allowed into the White House,” said Matt Cude, who drove three-hours to Weirs Beach from Jericho, Vt. It would be “absolutely fantastic,” he said, both for women and for the country.


Palin rally, Noblesville, Indiana (Indianapolis area), October 17 (AP)

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Old 10-20-2008, 12:56 AM   #883
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pigs.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:12 AM   #884
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There is a reason why Palin's numbers are lower among women.

Many of us here zeroed it on it right away.

Others told us that women voted exclusively for vaginas.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:04 AM   #885
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I wonder if those guys would be so willing to "let" her be in the White House if she looked like Madeleine Albright.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:47 PM   #886
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There is a reason why Palin's numbers are lower among women.

Many of us here zeroed it on it right away.
It's because we're all so totally jealous because she's a) like, so hawt; and b) a Republican.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:38 PM   #887
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joke, wink


Thank you, deep---I knew you were smarter than that.


even though I had to push "quote" to be sure...haha
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #888
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There is a reason why Palin's numbers are lower among women.

Many of us here zeroed it on it right away.

Others told us that women voted exclusively for vaginas.
Loathing Sarah Palin
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:25 PM   #889
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During his presidential campaign Mike Huckabee expressed a set of opinions not strikingly different from Sarah Palin's, yet my guess is that if he were John McCain's running mate these same women would not despise him with the same vehemence they do Sarah Palin.
Yes, I would. And I do.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:25 PM   #890
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Guess it was invisible or something
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:54 PM   #891
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Palin breaks with McCain: Supports federal ban on gay marriage
By Associated Press Monday, October 20, 2008

NEW YORK - Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin says she supports a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, a break with John McCain who has said he believes states should be left to define what marriage is.

In an interview with Christian Broadcasting Network, the Alaska governor said she had voted in 1998 for a state amendment banning same sex marriage and hoped to see a federal ban on such unions.

"I have voted along with the vast majority of Alaskans who had the opportunity to vote to amend our Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. I wish on a federal level that’s where we would go. I don’t support gay marriage," Palin said. She said she believed traditional marriage is the foundation for strong families.

McCain, an Arizona senator, is supporting a ballot initiative in his state this year that would ban gay marriage. But he has consistently and forcefully opposed a federal marriage amendment, saying it would usurp states’ authority on such matters.

As governor, Palin vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to the partners of gay state employees. In a debate with Democratic rival Joe Biden, Palin said she was "tolerant" of gays and said she supported certain legal protections for same-sex couples, like hospital visitation rights.

In the CBN interview, Palin also said she would speak out if she heard a supporter at a rally yell violent or threatening comments about Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee.

"What we have heard through some mainstream media is that folks have hollered out some atrocious and unacceptable things like ’kill him,’" Palin said, referring to a Washington Post story two weeks ago about angry supporters at a Palin rally in Florida. "If I ever were to hear that standing up there at the podium with the mike, I would call them out on that, and I would tell these people, no, that’s unacceptable."

CBN released excerpts of the interview Monday and planned to broadcast it in its entirety Tuesday.

Palin also claimed religion and God had been "mocked" during the campaign, although she offered no evidence to support that.

"Faith in God in general has been mocked through this campaign, and that breaks my heart and that is unfair for others who share a faith in God and choose to worship our Lord in whatever private manner that they deem fit," she said.

Palin is a conservative Christian who was baptized and grew up attending Pentecostal churches. In September, Obama defended Palin’s religious beliefs and said it would be "offensive" to portray her faith as strange or wrong.

Palin also reaffirmed her view that Obama had been "palling around with terrorists" because of his association with Bill Ayers, a 1960s-era radical who helped found the violent Weather Underground group to protest the Vietnam war. The group was responsible for bombings of several government buildings.

"I would say it again," she said.

Ayers and Obama live in the same Chicago neighborhood and have served together on charity boards. Ayers also hosted a house party for Obama when he was first running for the Illinois state Senate.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:59 PM   #892
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I wonder if those guys would be so willing to "let" her be in the White House if she looked like Madeleine Albright.
That too...but, what most stood out to me was the generally-well-intentioned but still notably stereotypical thinking cited in the last paragraph.
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“They bear us children, they risk their lives to give us birth, so maybe it’s time we let a woman lead us,” said Larry Hawkins, a former truck driver attending a rally late Thursday at Elon University in North Carolina.
He's almost certainly getting at something broader than what his words suggest, but on a surface level at least, this statement really makes no sense. The mere fact that a particular woman has given birth however many times (or never) tells you absolutely nothing about her general character, let alone her fitness to hold public office, and it's strange to suggest she's somehow entitled to be "let" to do so on those grounds.
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Mr. Hawkins said he would rather vote for Ms. Palin than for “McCain and Obama combined.” Men have done plenty to mess up the country, he said. “The sexual drives and big egos of male leaders have gotten in the way of politics in this country.” Mr. Hawkins said he talked to fellow truckers, and a lot of them feel the same way. “They think it’s time for a woman, too,” he said. “This one. Palin is our kind of woman.”
It's hard not to hear this as disingenuous, in a similar fashion to the way you sometimes hear older white people unfavorably compare "how angry blacks seem to be today" to the fondly remembered days when "I always admired how strong and self-sufficient and spirited blacks seemed to be despite being poor--not bitter and self-pitying like the poor whites." ("Our kind of black"?) Additionally, I think that to expect anyone who makes it into the White House to NOT have a "big ego" is kidding yourself. It's not enough to have a strong work ethic and a genuine sense of mission to serve and protect; you must also have an intense, driven conviction that I have a Plan for how to move our country forward, my plan is absolutely the best, and I have the ability to rally the American public around me so that we can get that plan in motion. Whether that drive comes from "testosterone," subconscious need to impress the father you could never please, determination to prove that your long-suffering deceased mother's sacrifices weren't in vain, or whatever other pop-psychology cliché might seem to apply is irrelevant--one way or another, that ego tenacity has to be there, or else you'll never make it to that level.
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There is a kind of “conservative feminism” here, and several men cite the appeal of Ms. Palin as a can-do caretaker. She can be glimpsed lugging an overstuffed bag of books, papers and baby supplies onto her plane and bottle feeding her infant son, Trig. “I love the idea of someone like her being allowed into the White House,” said Matt Cude, who drove three-hours to Weirs Beach from Jericho, Vt.
"Can-do caretaker" sounds to me like a phrase that could apply to millions of working mothers and fathers out there...but somehow I doubt that these men would have it occur to them to perceive another man that way, or that they'd likely much appreciate the label being applied to them. All three major male candidates this election are fathers, and by all appearances quite devoted ones (with seemingly accomplished adult children in McCain's and Biden's cases; e.g., like Palin they have sons in Iraq), and yes, they certainly do reference their families from time to time, bring them out on stage etc. But they don't routinely saturate their speeches with catchphrases like "Well, as a soccer dad..." or "Y'know, being a dad, I know what it's like to...." And why should they? Sure, it's nice to get a glimpse of how their private lives inform their stances from time to time, but they're not auditioning to be our parents. Since I have young children myself, I do find it somewhat of interest, "heartwarming" or what have you, that Obama and Palin do, too--but they have nothing to prove to me as candidates in that regard. That doesn't make me think Yes! Now that's my kind of (wo)man! and, to the extent that being a parent factors into my political views, I'd look at their policies on education, healthcare, taxes etc. to decide whose policies are best for families in my opinion, certainly not at who has the most kids or the fullest diaper bag. Or is a mother as opposed to a father.


I'm sure that in the end, a candidate's ideology matters much more to most voters than his or her sex. But clearly, appearing to be "our kind of woman" in ways that go beyond ideology--looks, motherhood, 'folksiness'(?)--has the potential in its own right to fire up many male (and some female) voters, and it's interesting to observe that process.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:03 PM   #893
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Palin breaks with McCain: Supports federal ban on gay marriage
By Associated Press Monday, October 20, 2008
Republicans for more government !!
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:25 PM   #894
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During his presidential campaign Mike Huckabee expressed a set of opinions not strikingly different from Sarah Palin's, yet my guess is that if he were John McCain's running mate these same women would not despise him with the same vehemence they do Sarah Palin.
In some cases they might not...but Huckabee stood out from the entire rest of the field during the primaries for his consistent--and apparently genuine--graciousness, razor-sharp wit, and (for a politician) disarming humility and unassuming nature. In short, to many, he had "likeability" in spades. Numerous liberal posters in here commented on how they found him impossible to dislike personally, despite finding many of his political views "scary". Palin is a lot of things, personality-wise, but she's not well-endowed with any of those qualities--and frankly, none of the other candidates (from either party) were or are, either. You can't just reduce two candidates' popular appeal to 'sex + platform stances', then compare them and expect the contrasts to be particularly illuminating.


Also, re: female Palin-loathers' motivations more generally, it doesn't help matters that numerous pundits and others repeatedly exclaimed after McCain selected her that this would surely cause mass defection of women to the GOP ticket. (Reminded me of a famous political cartoon from '84 depicting Mondale leaning on a sports car labeled 'Ferraro' and smirking, "I'm really gonna pick up the chicks with this one!") If you want to seriously piss off potential swing voters, patronizingly taking their support for granted is a great way to do it.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:30 PM   #895
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Yes, I would. And I do.
same here!
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:39 PM   #896
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You can't just reduce two candidates' popular appeal to 'sex + platform stances', then compare them and expect the contrasts to be particularly illuminating.
So a conservative male might not exactly be able to predict how liberal females might be thinking?
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:42 PM   #897
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im an expert on all women.

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Old 10-20-2008, 08:02 PM   #898
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NEW YORK - Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin says she supports a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, a break with John McCain who has said he believes states should be left to define what marriage is.


clearly, marriage is a shotgun wedding between two teenagers.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:07 PM   #899
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I'm sure that in the end, a candidate's ideology matters much more to most voters than his or her sex. But clearly, appearing to be "our kind of woman" in ways that go beyond ideology--looks, motherhood, 'folksiness'(?)--has the potential in its own right to fire up many male (and some female) voters, and it's interesting to observe that process.


it really comes off as no different than those who think that marriage is the fulfillment of god-given natural sex roles determined by the bible science, and that children should only be raised in such a jesus-perscribed, pastor-approved natural and ideal environment.

it's the same kind of thinking, and they've fooled themselves into thinking that this is progressive thought, when really it's actually ossifying god-given biological expectations based on patriarchal stereotypes gender.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:09 PM   #900
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clearly, marriage is a shotgun wedding between two teenagers.



Hey, at least those two kids had straight parents.
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