Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 2 - Page 29 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-09-2008, 04:35 PM   #561
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it has turned out to be a short-term politically astute pick,

but i'd be worried about long-term damage to the ticket as a whole because she undercuts his entire pre-convention narrative, takes experience off the table, and has shifted the entire campaign from issues to personal narratives.

and i think we all agree, even if we are loathe to admit it, that this pick was only about politics, not about competence.

some might think it was necessary in order to raise McCain from the dead yet again, but what does this say about McCain and the "country first" narrative?
I think it is politics AND competence. Her experience with Energy is good for the tickets and it is a big issues in this election. She has a track record of success in this area. People cannot keep saying "mayor of a town of 9000" and ignore what she has done as Governor.

Another thing to consider is maybe the excitement is because people feel like they finally have someone to vote they feel represents who they are. Obama can bash the small town conservatives clinging to their guns and religion, but there are a lot of them and they now have a candidate that they can relate to. They have someone who could be from their town. Someone who shares their values.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:41 PM   #562
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ignore what she has done as Governor.
what has she done as governor that leads you to believe that she's had adequate preparation for the presidency?



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Another thing to consider is maybe the excitement is because people feel like they finally have someone to vote they feel represents who they are. Obama can bash the small town conservatives clinging to their guns and religion, but there are a lot of them and they now have a candidate that they can relate to. They have someone who could be from their town. Someone who shares their values.


this gets to exactly what i was talking about before -- our national narcissism. that someone who reflects "me!" is more important than whether or not they are a good choice. voting on these things like "values" -- insofar as "values" is used in political terms, which is less philosophy and more "do they agree with my gut emotional responses to select social issues" -- has turned politics into even more of a game. it's not even so much as a candidate selling himself to you and convincing you that he/she's the best person for the job. it's now a candidate trying to convince you that he or she is just like you!

guess what? none of these people are just like you. they're all egoists and ruthless careerists and they're all pretty smart and they love to see their names up in lights. politicians aren't you, and you aren't a politician, and that's probably a good thing.

they've turned voting into an act of self-expression, when it really should be much more practical than that. i've noticed -- and i'm *totally* guilty of this here -- but Americans tend to take politics very, very personally. some of that is because there actually is so much at stake. it is a matter of life and death as 4,000 dead soldiers in the sands of Iraq will tell you. but i think it's also because the process has turned labels like "liberal/conservative" or "Republican/Democrat" into lifestyles, or brands.

and if you think Obama was "bashing" small-town folk, you really need to look at the entire context of the quote. i can agree that the quote could be understood as being patronizing, but if you take a look at it in it's entirety, you'll see that he's offering compassion towards certain blocks of voters who have been economically decimated by Republican economic policies, and yet still continue to vote Republican even though it's totally against their economic self-interests to do so. it's a reflection of Howard Dean's "guns, god, and gays" from 2004. he, imho, totally fucked up when he used the word "cling," but i think he is absolutely right in this assessment of how working class whites have struggled with the death of the manufacturing/agricultural base in this country and in such uncertain times, religion and culture -- and there is absolutely a hunter/gun culture out there -- become life rafts of certainty.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:41 PM   #563
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so why did McCain pick the, in your view, female Obama? what does that say about McCain?
I said I could SAY that same, not that the ARE the same. She took on her own party. She has executive leadership. She has a record of accomplishments to stand on. I feel she'd be a better Presidential candidate than Obama. That why the McCain could die argument does not matter to me.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:47 PM   #564
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I said I could SAY that same, not that the ARE the same. She took on her own party. She has executive leadership. She has a record of accomplishments to stand on. I feel she'd be a better Presidential candidate than Obama. That why the McCain could die argument does not matter to me.


i understand that this is your opinion.

but this seems like an awfully low bar, particularly since we have no idea what she thinks about anything to do with foreign policy.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:56 PM   #565
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what has she done as governor that leads you to believe that she's had adequate preparation for the presidency?
.
Do you really want to compare the accomplishments of the Governor and the community organizer?

First, she took on the corrupt leadership in Alaska and won.

Under her leadership, Alaska invested $5 billion in state savings, overhauled education funding, and implemented the Senior Benefits Program that provides support for low-income older Alaskans. She created Alaska’s Petroleum Systems Integrity Office to provide oversight and maintenance of oil and gas equipment, facilities and infrastructure, and the Climate Change Subcabinet to prepare a climate change strategy for Alaska.

AL GORE WOULD BE PROUD, A REPUBLICAN ADDRESSING THE ENVIORNMENT

During her first legislative session, Governor Palin’s administration passed two major pieces of legislation - an overhaul of the state’s ethics laws and a competitive process to construct a gas pipeline.

2 IN HER 1st SESSION. WHAT HAS OBAMA DONE IN 4 YEARS?

Governor Palin is chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, a multi-state government agency that promotes the conservation and efficient recovery of domestic oil and natural gas resources while protecting health, safety and the environment. She was recently named chair of the National Governors Association (NGA) Natural Resources Committee, which is charged with pursuing legislation to ensure state needs are considered as federal policy is formulated in the areas of agriculture, energy, environmental protection and natural resource management. Prior to being named to this position, she served as co-chair of this committee.

Prior to her election as governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla. During her tenure, she reduced property tax levels while increasing services and made Wasilla a business friendly environment, drawing in new industry.

She has served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska’s most valuable non-renewable resources: oil and gas. She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska’s communities.

I think that is a pretty good record by any standard

By the way...on the Bridge to Nowhere.....you might find it interesting that Governor Palin was praised on the DEMOCRATIC web site in Alaska for her efforts killing the project.
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:59 PM   #566
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i understand that this is your opinion.

but this seems like an awfully low bar, particularly since we have no idea what she thinks about anything to do with foreign policy.
Who sets the tickets agenda? That would be the Presidential candidate. That is John McCain. He has the Foreign Policy experience. Do I even need to say it is way more experience than Obama?
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:11 PM   #567
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Yep, I am being judgmental. Quite seriously so. I honestly can't fathom how W got re-elected, and I can't understand why anyone would vote for any Republican candidate right now when our country is in the mess it's in. Seriously. I can't believe there's even a debate at this point. I look at the newspaper, and I say to my husband, I can't believe that people are still undecided.

So, yeah, I'm being judgmental. It's a personal opinion. No one has outlawed those YET.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:14 PM   #568
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The Hunt for Sarah October
City slickers invade Wasilla
September 9, 2008

Democrats understand Sarah Palin is a formidable political force who has upset the Obama victory plan. The latest Washington Post/ABC Poll shows John McCain taking a 12-point lead over Barack Obama among white women, a reversal of Mr. Obama's eight-point lead last month.

It's no surprise, then, that Democrats have airdropped a mini-army of 30 lawyers, investigators and opposition researchers into Anchorage, the state capital Juneau and Mrs. Palin's hometown of Wasilla to dig into her record and background. My sources report the first wave arrived in Anchorage less than 24 hours after John McCain selected her on August 29.

The main area of interest to the Democratic SWAT team is Mrs. Palin's dismissal in July of her public safety commissioner. Mrs. Palin says he was fired for cause. Her critics claim he was fired because he wouldn't bend to pressure to get rid of a state trooper, Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a bitter divorce battle with Mrs. Palin's sister. Mr. Wooten is certainly a colorful character. He served a five-day suspension after the Palin family filed a complaint against him alleging he had threatened Mrs. Palin's father. They also accused him of using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson, drinking in his patrol car and illegally shooting a moose.

Mrs. Palin will return to Alaska for the first time in nearly two weeks on Wednesday night, when she is scheduled to arrive in Fairbanks. Local Republicans will hold a "Welcome Home" rally for her. You can bet some of the Democratic opposition research contingent will be in the audience taking notes. They'll be the ones arriving in rental cars and wearing fancy dress shoes from back east.

John Fund
Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to state whatever you want.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:15 PM   #569
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Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to say what you want.
Better yet go straight to the White House if you want that done.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:17 PM   #570
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Yep, I am being judgmental. Quite seriously so. I honestly can't fathom how W got re-elected, and I can't understand why anyone would vote for any Republican candidate right now when our country is in the mess it's in. Seriously. I can't believe there's even a debate at this point. I look at the newspaper, and I say to my husband, I can't believe that people are still undecided.

So, yeah, I'm being judgmental. It's a personal opinion. No one has outlawed those YET.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And by the most recent polls, more have the opinion that McCain should be President. We'll see in Nov if all of us bad decision makers prevail.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:18 PM   #571
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Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to state whatever you want.
Be nice to Dan. It was a mistake and he said he was sorry.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:26 PM   #572
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:30 PM   #573
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what has she done as governor that leads you to believe that she's had adequate preparation for the presidency?
A few more for ya


This spring she used her line-item veto to cut $268 million from state spending bills

GIA License bill signed August 27, 2008

House Bill 3001 for awarding a contract to TransCanada Alaska for developing and building a pipeline stretching for 1,715 miles from the Prudhoe Bay treatment plant to Alberta Canada.

Natives of Alaska have dreamed of a pipeline for more than 30 years. Sarah Palin in less than two years got the bill passed and the framework is now laid for them to move forward with the project.

Governor Palin said. “This legislation brings us closer than we’ve ever been to building a gas pipeline and finally accessing our gas that has been languishing for so many decades on the North Slope.”

More than 36,000 miles of pipeline is now operated by TransCanada Corporation in North America. They have built many pipelines also and are appreciative of the Governor's suport.


Energy Package signed August 25, 2008.

House Bill 4001 and Senate bill 4002 were signed into law by Governor Palin on August 25, 2008. SB 4002 pays $1,200 to each resident who qualifies. The money for these payments comes from the state's natural resource revenue. This bill also suspends the state's tax on gasoline.

“Alaskans who signed up for direct deposit will see these funds on September 12, along with their dividend,” said Governor Palin. “In rural Alaska, particularly, many people are facing a choice between feeding their families and heating their homes, and they could use this payment from the state's energy-generated surplus to cover some of those bills.”

Administrative Order 242 signed August 20, 2008.

This order puts together a co-op of the Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Revenue to work with organizations who wish to commercialize Alaska's North Slope natural gas.

"This solidifies our commitment to facilitating an LNG project that is a product of market interest,” Governor Palin said. “By committing both project capital and natural gas resources to a pipeline that would transport North Slope natural gas to tidewater, an LNG project can remain an integral element of the state’s effort to deliver Alaska’s gas to market"


Yeah, I see your point. She has no experience. How did she even end up on a Presidential ticket?
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:38 PM   #574
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People cannot keep saying "mayor of a town of 9000" and ignore what she has done as Governor.
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Do you really want to compare the accomplishments of the Governor and the community organizer?
Oh sweet, sweet hypocrisy...
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:39 PM   #575
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Oh, sweet, sweet hypocrisy....
Seriously. I hadn't caught that before because those two lines weren't right next to each other like that. Good catch.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:57 PM   #576
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Oh sweet, sweet hypocrisy...
Oh sweet sarcasm...
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:00 PM   #577
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Seriously. I hadn't caught that before because those two lines weren't right next to each other like that. Good catch.
Well done. Find something else to talk about. Anything other than acknowledging the list of accomplishment. Well played.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:08 PM   #578
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I don't think the mayor of Orange is ready to be VP. And Orange is bigger than Wasilla.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:11 PM   #579
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Really seems like a waste of time when Dan Rather stands ready to "produce" any kind of document to state whatever you want.
Who do you think produced that document?
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:22 PM   #580
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I don't think the mayor of Orange is ready to be VP. And Orange is bigger than Wasilla.
To be fair, Palin is the state governor now.

Though I don't think The Governator is ready to be president, either.
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