Is Palin failin' ? or OMG McCain wins with Palin !! pt. 2 - Page 27 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-09-2008, 10:53 AM   #521
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But that is where her State of the State address this year plays. She said Alaska, "..can not and must not rely so heavily on earmarks." It is not the exact same position as McCain, but it does speak to a desire to get away from them. You can make that point that it is a thin argument. However, it is what she said and is better from her and McCain than if she never said anything about them.


so she says one thing, and does another.

this leads me to conclude that she's a fraud and the campaign is lying.

i'm guessing i won't be alone in this conclusion.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:53 AM   #522
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Instead it is who is the real mom of her newborn? Palin is a Nazi? Palin only wants abstinence taught in schools. All things proven untrue very quickly.
Actually the abstinence issue has not been proven untrue. In writing we have that she supports abstinence being taught in schools, and then we have the one quote you provided that really doesn't address the issue fully, it just says the pro-contraception and didn't want "explicit" education, whatever that means.

So we may not really know where she stands, we haven't really heard what if anything she's done regarding this while she's in office. Time will tell, although I have a feeling she won't be very vocal about this issue given current circumstances.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:54 AM   #523
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I think most will see it that way. Unfortunately we live in a day where we kinda expect our politicians to change their minds or "flip flop" as the Republicans have coined it, to a certain extent. It's a matter of how much and how big is the flip flop. The bridge to nowhere has been a pretty big story nationally and McCain was one of the most vocal about it, so to pick someone who supported it will get some big attention. This is a big part of his platform! Some can explain themselves out of the hypocricy and she hasn't explained herself well on this subject.
You have a good point. I dont think she has really explained herself at all on it. It is a reasonable question. Hopefully she will address it and hopefully everyone is going to be open minded enough to listen without prejudice.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #524
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so she says one thing, and does another.

this leads me to conclude that she's a fraud and the campaign is lying.

i'm guessing i won't be alone in this conclusion.
I'm sure Dems will try to see it that way. You hear what you want to hear.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:00 AM   #525
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Actually the abstinence issue has not been proven untrue. In writing we have that she supports abstinence being taught in schools, and then we have the one quote you provided that really doesn't address the issue fully, it just says the pro-contraception and didn't want "explicit" education, whatever that means.

So we may not really know where she stands, we haven't really heard what if anything she's done regarding this while she's in office. Time will tell, although I have a feeling she won't be very vocal about this issue given current circumstances.

It is not just "one quote." There are several times where it was stated during her run. I thought it would be redundant to post several quotes saying that same thing. The fact is the rumors about abstinence only is schools is not true
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:00 AM   #526
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I'm sure Dems will try to see it that way. You hear what you want to hear.


what else can we conclude?
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:02 AM   #527
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It would be kind of pathetic if the only reason people start supporting the Republican ticket is because they're pissed about rumors and internet gossip.

But then, the American voting public isn't chock full of people who make good decisions, is it?
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:05 AM   #528
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so she says one thing, and does another.

this leads me to conclude that she's a fraud and the campaign is lying.

i'm guessing i won't be alone in this conclusion.
Well she did rely on earmarks quite a bit, which made me question the stories of her supporting succession when that came out because obviously she couldn't have been that confident Alaska could act on it's own. We now know she probably wasn't ever a member of the AIP but her ties to them are somewhat
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:08 AM   #529
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It is not just "one quote." There are several times where it was stated during her run. I thought it would be redundant to post several quotes saying that same thing. The fact is the rumors about abstinence only is schools is not true
I've only found the one.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:17 AM   #530
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It would be kind of pathetic if the only reason people start supporting the Republican ticket is because they're pissed about rumors and internet gossip.

But then, the American voting public isn't chock full of people who make good decisions, is it?
But is does serve to fire up people that may have been apathetic about voting. I know people who were not going to vote that are excited now. Voter turn out is going to be very important in this election.

It seems more than a little unfair to say that, "the American voting public isn't chock full of people who make good decisions." What are you basing that on? Is it possibly that fact that the guy you wanted did not win or proposition you wanted did not pass? If thats the case, it would seem a bit judgmental that your opinion is right and anyone that does not agree with you and vote that same way is not making a "good decision"
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:32 PM   #531
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It seems more than a little unfair to say that, "the American voting public isn't chock full of people who make good decisions." What are you basing that on? Is it possibly that fact that the guy you wanted did not win or proposition you wanted did not pass? If thats the case, it would seem a bit judgmental that your opinion is right and anyone that does not agree with you and vote that same way is not making a "good decision"
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:12 PM   #532
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ahhh, but you forget the country is more conservative than liberal.

<>


Anyone who disagrees should google "question D3"

Very conservative: 20%
Somewhat conservative: 40%
Moderate: 2%
Somewhat liberal: 27%
Very liberal: 9%
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:19 PM   #533
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Anyone who disagrees should google "question D3"

Very conservative: 20%
Somewhat conservative: 40%
Moderate: 2%
Somewhat liberal: 27%
Very liberal: 9%
Out of curiosity, who conducted this survey? I mean, who is responsible for these statistics? I don't argue that the country is (unfortunately) more conservative than liberal, I'm just curious as to the source.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:31 PM   #534
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Out of curiosity, who conducted this survey? I mean, who is responsible for these statistics? I don't argue that the country is (unfortunately) more conservative than liberal, I'm just curious as to the source.
Keith Olbermann / MSNBC
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:38 PM   #535
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Out of curiosity, who conducted this survey? I mean, who is responsible for these statistics? I don't argue that the country is (unfortunately) more conservative than liberal, I'm just curious as to the source.
It's a bipartisan poll called the "Battleground Poll" sponsored by George Washington University.

Here's what is said about it:


"The Battleground Poll, the most respected and thorough of all public opinion polls, released its latest results on August 20th. Although many people read this poll for the data on voter preference in upcoming elections, for voter opinions about the two major political parties, for what things matter most to voters, I always zip past this data in the first fifteen pages of poll results and go straight to Question D3, which very quietly and totally ignored proclaims the biggest missing story in American politics and which is the only story, in the long run, that really matters.

I have been tracking Question D3 for a long time, since June 2002, in thirteen straight Battleground Poll results. Americans respond to this question more consistently than to any other question in those thirteen Battleground Poll surveys. People may change their opinions dramatically about Iraq or President Bush or drilling for oil, but not their answer to Question D3.

The Battleground Poll is different. It is bipartisan. A Republican polling organization, the Terrance Group, and a Democrat polling organization, Lake Research Partners, collaborate in picking the questions, selecting the sample population, conducting the surveys, and analyzing the results. The Battleground Poll website, along with the raw data, is "Republican Strategic Analysis" and "Democratic Strategic Analysis." There are few polls that are bipartisan. No other polling organization asks the same questions year after year, none that reveal the internals of their poll results so completely, and none ask anything like Question D3 in every survey. What is Question D3 and what were the results to Question D3 in the August 20, 2008 Battleground Poll? It is this:

When thinking about politics and government, do you consider yourself to be...

--Very conservative

--Somewhat conservative

--MODERATE

--Somewhat liberal

--Very liberal

In August 2008, Americans answered that question this way: (1) 20% of Americans considered themselves to be very conservative; (2) 40% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat conservative; (3) 2% of Americans considered themselves to be moderate; (4) 27% of Americans considered themselves to be somewhat liberal; (5) 9% of Americans considered themselves to be very liberal; and (6) 3% of Americans did not know or refused to answer.

Sixty percent of Americans considered themselves conservative. Does this mean that most Americans do not know what "conservative" means? No: The question specifically provides an out to people who are not sure about their ideology; it provides an out to people who want to be considered "moderate." Americans reject those choices. They overwhelmingly define themselves as "conservative." This is a huge political story - except that it is not "new" at all. Look at the thirteen Battleground Poll results over the last six years, and how do Americans answer that very question? Here are the percentages of Americans in those polls who call themselves "conservative" since June 2002: 59% (June 2002 poll), 59% (September 2003 poll), 61% (April 2004 poll), 59% (June 2004 poll), 60% (September 2004 poll), 61% (October 2005 poll), 59% (March 2006), 61% (October 2006), 59% (January 2007), 63% (July 2007), 58% (December 2007), 63% (May 2008), and now 60% (August 2008.)"
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:40 PM   #536
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Anyone who disagrees should google "question D3"

Very conservative: 20%
Somewhat conservative: 40%
Moderate: 2%
Somewhat liberal: 27%
Very liberal: 9%
Kind of a useless poll. Not that I disagree, I would assume the majority will fall in the conservative slot, it's easier to vote for self interest.

But the definition of conservative has a lot of gray.

The other interesting thing about this is I keep hearing from you and many others how the fact that this race is close is somehow an indication that the Democrats are screwing up, we should be up by 10 points. Sounds like some folks like to have it both ways.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:45 PM   #537
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some folks like to have it both ways.
True

But they probably would be considered liberal and vote democratic.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:47 PM   #538
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Kind of a useless poll. Not that I disagree, I would assume the majority will fall in the conservative slot, it's easier to vote for self interest.

But the definition of conservative has a lot of gray.

The other interesting thing about this is I keep hearing from you and many others how the fact that this race is close is somehow an indication that the Democrats are screwing up, we should be up by 10 points. Sounds like some folks like to have it both ways.
And even though 60% claim to be conservative, judging by all the state polls on realclearpolitics.com and applying them to the electoral college, if the election were held today, Obama would win. Why is this?

My guess is that the 40% who answered "somewhat conservative" are people who are not necessarily thrilled with the the "neocon" movement that has defined the Republican Party in recent years.

Point being, there are conservative democrats and liberal republicans. They are all moderates in the overall scheme of things. I think the 2% for moderates is a very misleading stat.

I'm in a minority - 9%
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:49 PM   #539
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The other interesting thing about this is I keep hearing from you and many others how the fact that this race is close is somehow an indication that the Democrats are screwing up, we should be up by 10 points. Sounds like some folks like to have it both ways.
Well it's hard to say. Democrats outnumber Republicans in this country by at least 5 to 6 percent, so it creates kind of a weird paradox.

Perhaps the average American is a conservative Democrat?
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:49 PM   #540
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Kind of a useless poll. Not that I disagree, I would assume the majority will fall in the conservative slot, it's easier to vote for self interest.

But the definition of conservative has a lot of gray.

The other interesting thing about this is I keep hearing from you and many others how the fact that this race is close is somehow an indication that the Democrats are screwing up, we should be up by 10 points. Sounds like some folks like to have it both ways.
Well, since according to many, the current Republican President in the White House is the "worst in US history", Democrats should win in November by one of the largest landslides in history.
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