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Old 01-29-2004, 08:41 AM   #1
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Is loyalty bound to a nation?

I've been living in Canada now since last spring, moving here for love and career, but I was born and raised in the southern US. Some people ask me whether I think of myself as Canadian or American but I don't think I should have to choose one or the other. I don't think its disloyal to my birthplace to have Canada as my adopted country, neither do I think I should have to give up my heritage as an American. Is this trying to have my cake and eat it too or is it perfectly acceptable? I prefer to put my beliefs behind ideas- like democracy, human rights- rather than under a particular flag.
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:40 PM   #2
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Although my heart will always belong to Canada.. I stand as a Global Citizen, concerened not just for what is right for Canada.. but for humanity in general.
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:20 PM   #3
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Re: Is loyalty bound to a nation?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGenericPoet
Is this trying to have my cake and eat it too or is it perfectly acceptable? I prefer to put my beliefs behind ideas- like democracy, human rights- rather than under a particular flag.


Nah, I think what you said about ideas is great! and many nations can have those same ideas.

This is a bit different, but what I DON'T like is when people living in the US complain about EVERYTHING here, and it gets to a point where I just want to scream THEN GET THE FUCK OUT!!!

For example, one of my good friends in high school was raised in Hong Kong, Thailand and Bangladesh b/c her parents were missionaries. Her and her mom would complain endlessly about all of the flaws in the US and how much better life is in Hong Kong, or how Michigan is so drab and Thailand is so beautiful, on and on and on.

They had this attitude that it was OK for them to put us down because my other friends and I haven't been priviledged enough to live or visit anywhere else in the world and that somehow I am stupid because I actually prefer the United States to any other country. It just got so annoying! and it's not like I sat there preaching about the US and my patriotism, I never said anything to set them off.

It just brings to mind this one day we went shopping and my friend bought a pair of flip-flops that were navy blue with a white and red stripe and her mom got mad b/c she thought we were being too patriotic.

If they don't like it here, they why don't they LEAVE already??
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:05 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Is loyalty bound to a nation?

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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic



If they don't like it here, they why don't they LEAVE already??
I'm desperately trying to stay out, and know people who want to leave, but it's not always possible.
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Katey
Although my heart will always belong to Canada.. I stand as a Global Citizen, concerened not just for what is right for Canada.. but for humanity in general.
That's how I feel about being an American.

My officemate is Australian but she's been living here for 25 years. She considers herself an Australian, would never give up her Australian passport, but loves living here and now that the US is offering dual citizenship, she's going to go for it mainly so she can vote in the upcoming election but also because of the Patriot Act which makes her feel vulnerable.
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:41 PM   #6
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I would have problem with giving up my passport for one of another country (by choice of course)
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:53 PM   #7
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Re: Is loyalty bound to a nation?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGenericPoet
I prefer to put my beliefs behind ideas- like democracy, human rights- rather than under a particular flag.

Here here. National ideology has been one of the most desctructive forces of the past couple of centuries.

sd
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:59 PM   #8
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Mother Teresa once said:

Quote:
"By blood, I am Albanian. By my citizenship, an Indian. By faith, I am a Catholic nun. As to my calling, I belong to the world. As to my heart, I belong entirely to the Heart of Jesus."
I like that.
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:16 PM   #9
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Awwww Matt- just declare allegiance to your own mini country like Peter on Family Guy and piss both sides off.

Seriously, ideas over flags is an admirable notion.

And anitram, love the Mother Theresa quote.
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Old 01-29-2004, 09:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by LCK
Awwww Matt- just declare allegiance to your own mini country like Peter on Family Guy and piss both sides off.

Seriously, ideas over flags is an admirable notion.

And anitram, love the Mother Theresa quote.
I love that quote. I'm going to put that in my next picture!
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Old 01-29-2004, 10:37 PM   #11
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Re: Is loyalty bound to a nation?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGenericPoet
I've been living in Canada now since last spring, moving here for love and career, but I was born and raised in the southern US. Some people ask me whether I think of myself as Canadian or American but I don't think I should have to choose one or the other. I don't think its disloyal to my birthplace to have Canada as my adopted country, neither do I think I should have to give up my heritage as an American. Is this trying to have my cake and eat it too or is it perfectly acceptable? I prefer to put my beliefs behind ideas- like democracy, human rights- rather than under a particular flag.
I like what you say here, and I agree with it wholly.

And, since there's a good chance that I'll be living in Toronto by this time next year, it's also somewhat applicable to me.

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Old 01-30-2004, 06:23 AM   #12
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Like Salome, I could never give up my citizenship of my country. You can take me out of here, but I will always be an Aussie. I reckon dual citizenships are a great thing though and agree completely with you all.
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Old 01-30-2004, 06:34 AM   #13
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oops, I meant "NO problem"

same kind of reasoning actually though
though it just sort of makes sense to me to have the nationality of the country where you have decided that you want to live I ended up being the person that I am now because of growing up here in the netherlands
and being in another country with a different passport could not change that

it's just a piece of paper anyway
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Old 01-30-2004, 06:46 AM   #14
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Thanks for all the input and support everybody
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Old 01-30-2004, 06:53 AM   #15
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Hehe I doubt I was any help, but I now kinda disagree with Salome, but kinda not. I guess we can only ever be what we feel. If that means becoming what your adopted country is its great, if not, well great too.
Having your cake and eating it too.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:22 AM   #16
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I think we lose sight of the value of citizenship. For generation, people worked extremely hard, essentially investing everything they had, to obtain US citizenship. I wonder how those people feel when they see the level of appreciate fall so far and that the line between citizen and non-citizen continues to disappear.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
oops, I meant "NO problem"

same kind of reasoning actually though
though it just sort of makes sense to me to have the nationality of the country where you have decided that you want to live I ended up being the person that I am now because of growing up here in the netherlands
and being in another country with a different passport could not change that

it's just a piece of paper anyway


I want British citizenship and hope to be able to stay here long enough to qualify for it (and afford it!), but I want dual citizenship. If for some reason the requirements changed and I had to renounce my US citizenship, though, I would do it. I just want to keep my US citizenship for the benefit of any kids Sam and I might have and so I can travel to the US with no hassle. It's not that I hate the US and want to cut all ties with it; I just prefer living here, and want the benefits of citizenship after I've met the requirements. Even if I had to give up my US citizenship, I would still say I'm an American because British citizenship wouldn't change my life experiences (or my accent!). It's not really a matter of national pride, but of identity, I think. Losing my US passport and living in Europe for the rest of my life wouldn't change that.

If that makes ANY sense.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I think we lose sight of the value of citizenship. For generation, people worked extremely hard, essentially investing everything they had, to obtain US citizenship. I wonder how those people feel when they see the level of appreciate fall so far and that the line between citizen and non-citizen continues to disappear.
I think that's an interesting thought, because it's true that many, many people gave up everything for a single chance to get (not just!) US citizenship.

At the same time, we are individuals and you should live your life as you see fit. So in that sense, why does it matter how they feel? Times are different now, we are moving closer to a global community.

I'm an ethnic mix of German, Croat and Italian blood. I have dual citizenship and if I could have triple, I would have taken German citizenship through my mother. My nationality is Canadian and there is no place I'd rather live, for many, many reasons. I think that it depends on the individual how they feel, how deeply they are steeped in a particular culture, etc, to determine how much citizenship means to them. Let no one else dictate it to you.
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Old 01-31-2004, 11:04 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Is loyalty bound to a nation?

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Originally posted by meegannie


I'm desperately trying to stay out, and know people who want to leave, but it's not always possible.
I meant more for situations where people CAN leave, and at every opportunity preach at length on how much they want to, but for some reason, never do. Like my said friend's parents, for example. They're free to leave at any time, and I doubt would have trouble affording it and have plenty of connections elsewhere. Yet they remain here, and I can barely spend a day at their house without hearing some negative comment about this country and how their favorite places in Asia are far better, which they very well may be, I'm not trying to say America IS the best, just that I don't like being insulted because I LOVE this country. That's all.
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