Is Jacko Innocent?

[sallycinnamon78]

One might wonder who's more crackers, Britney or MJ. Yes he should "be a man" like her droopy drawered husband is

Britney's Bad advice for Jacko
By This is London
15 March 2005

Pop superstar Britney Spears has offered some unusual advice to the beleaguered Michael Jackson – he should get drunk and fight someone in a bar.

Britney told US magazine Allure of her sympathy for the megastar singer, currently on trial for charges of child molestation.

But the recently-married Britney believes all Jackson needs to help him sort out his life is a moustache and a beer

She told the magazine, "If he did those things, I feel sorry for him. I feel like he probably feels alone, and he needs some help.

"He needs someone to be like, 'OK, let's buck you up, let's give you a moustache, let's rough you up, let's go to a bar, let's get drunk and be a man.'

"And if he didn't do those things, I feel sorry for him. Either way, he needs to get in a fight."

I'm now going to ruin my reputation for being logical and sensible in this particular thread:

Michael Jackson is undeniably talented, he has many gifts. He has done an incredible amount of charity work. Unfortunately he is also, very clearly, an emotionally stunted, mentally underdeveloped man. He needs help, in my opinion. No-one gave a damn about his mental health until all the Jordy Chandler nonsense. I know there are loads of people who will disagree, but my opinion is that it was a load of rubbish concocted by a nasty,. greedy, disgusting "parent". As I say, that's merely my opinion.

An opinionated summary of the differences between MJ and Britneeeeey:

Jacko is ill, lives on his own little Peter Pan planet and needs help.

Britney is just stupid and can barely string a sentence together.

Oh yeah, and MJ can actually sing, write, and dance. I'd be surprised to discover that Britney could READ, let alone write. More to the point, she can't sing to save her life. Pretty girl, definitely - but being good looking is no excuse for inflicting your tuneless caterwauling on millions of innocent people. Dumb cow.

So, having ruined my Voice Of Reason status admirably, i'm off to bed, as I haven't had any sleep for 25 hours and will get even more opinionated if I don't bog off while the going's good.

Thankyou and goodnight.

 

[Aardvark747]

for the above post

 

[Desert Dog]

Jackson is a pedophile who has convinced himself it is OK becasue he does it out of "love". If you dont believe he is a pedophile, then you are lving in your own neverland. Just take a long hard look at his life and his sham marriages, etc. It's never been more apparent.

 

[BonosSaint]

Jackson is a pedophile who has convinced himself it is OK becasue he does it out of "love". If you dont believe he is a pedophile, then you are lving in your own neverland. Just take a long hard look at his life and his sham marriages, etc. It's never been more apparent.

Do I personally believe he is a pedophile? Yes (However, I do not know whether he is.) Do I believe he should be found guilty in a court of law? Don't know that the prosecution is proving its case beyond a reasonable doubt and weirdness itself is not a crime.
Guilty and not guilty are legal terms, which have nothing to do with whether he actually committed the crime.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Jackson is a pedophile who has convinced himself it is OK becasue he does it out of "love". If you dont believe he is a pedophile, then you are lving in your own neverland. Just take a long hard look at his life and his sham marriages, etc. It's never been more apparent.

Yes, you can make sweeping assumptions about his state of mind, and how his childhood affected him. That's what we've been doing for the past 5 or 6 pages of this thread, to one extent or another.

It doen't mean any of us are right. As you say with complete certainty that he's guilty, are we to assume that you were there and know exactly what went on?

Believe me, I detest ANY kind of sex offender - particularly paedophiles, and if I had my way those people would spend the rest of their miserable, worthless, pathetic little lives suffering the consequences of their actions.

Still - prove the man guilty before you hang him. If you disagree with what I or anyone else believes, then sure,that's fair enough. Making backhanded little comments about people "living in your own neverland", when you know absolutely NOTHING about who they are or what they've experienced, is not. That is basic manners.

 

[verte76]

I don't mean to rip off this thread but I see parallels between the lives of MJ and Judy Garland. Both were exploited in show biz as kids, and both spent their entire adult lives in complete misery. I don't think Judy was nearly as out of touch with reality as MJ, is, but she had drug and drink problems, and had four failed marriages.
Back to Jacko.

 

[U2Kitten]

Verte, good point, we can start a whole new thread on child stars gone bad. The list is very long. While Jacko and Judy did enjoy success as adults, many were washed up at 12 or so and turned to drugs, crime, or worse, some ending up dead. I'd make a list but it's off topic. If you start a thread I'm sure it will get interesting.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

That's very true, sounds like a good idea to me anyway.

Then you've got the generation repeating the same mistakes: Liza Minnelli (spelled wrong?) for one.

 

[U2Kitten]

Just think what Blanket will be like in 20 years

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Not against such high profile people, and not so many cases against the same person.

Like all the women that miraculously appeared out of the woodwork after the Gennifer Flowers v. Bill Clinton case, accusing him of some extremely serious and despicable crimes? Of which he was subsequently cleared?

Like the accusations against Elton John, involving child porn, in the '70's? They were proved to be utter bullshit. if he's not high profile, I don't know who is.

I'm not trying to say Michael Jackson is innocent - I have no idea. Just a thought.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I'm not trying to say Michael Jackson is innocent - I have no idea.

Me neither, but I think he deserves a fair trial just like everyone else. If he's guilty, punish him and get him some help. If he's not, quit bugging him.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Me neither, but I think he deserves a fair trial just like everyone else. If he's guilty, punish him and get him some help. If he's not, quit bugging him.

Absolutely.

 

[diamond]

The descent of Michael





Celebrity is now something that comes about as much through attention as achievement. But the case of the Michael Jackson trial is more than a blip of photographs and prose loaded down with gush, hysteria and snoop. Michael Jackson is not Paris Hilton, though some might think he would like to be. He is such a master of step, spin and turn on the dance floor that Fred Astaire called him a genius.
Yet Jackson the man is like many of the people and things that have emerged since the upheaval of the 1960s. We saw revolutionary social changes that made for a much better society, but nothing ever arrives alone, especially in America. Our enormous latitude for invention, lunacy and profit always allow the worst to come along almost immediately following a set of innovations.

In the case of the '60s, irrefutably important social changes were contrasted by the adolescent blob of rock culture that eventually swallowed up much of the taste and obscured much of the talent of the society. We saw the loud and the obvious take up more of our cultural space. Adolescent obsessions with sensation and the sensational pushed most subtle forms of expression into the margins as teenage angst became more and more dominant.

Michael Jackson is an expression of that part of our social history, but also a symbol of other things - plastic surgery, the kind of adolescent attraction to childhood fantasies that we see in his Neverland home and our threadbare rock and roll aristocracy, which we witnessed when he married Elvis Presley's daughter.

This trial brought up questions about all this, but it seems to me that illusions of the man have been on trail along with Jackson himself. These illusions are grounded in what people assumed their relationship to Jackson was during periods of being enthralled by his music and videos. The amount of emotion we heap on our pop celebrities is suspect. People are not good guys just because they have ability.

The descent of Michael Jackson is testing that whole arena. For all that Jackson has done to control our illusions over a career that became progressively eccentric, his powers have fallen before the forces of this trial.

The publicity, the infinitude of speculations and the images of him either dancing atop a car on his first day of court appearance or being admonished for coming to court dressed in what seemed to be pajamas have proved his undoing.

He will never again be able to get by as any more than a vastly talented eccentric. He has now joined the ranks of the great freaks of our age and has no one to blame other than himself and his own willingness to play with the carnivorous forces that created his illusion.

 

[verte76]

I really don't know what to to think. But guilty or not, Michael Jackson is a really sad story. He has so much talent, but talent only takes you so far. If you can't cope with reality, and do dumbass stuff like dangle a baby over a balcony, it will catch up with you. The accusers are starting to look like greedy child manipulators, as Angela pointed out. Even if Michael is not guilty, and I hope to heck he's not, he's got enough problems to deal with. This case points out alot of things that are wrong with our celebrity-obsessed culture. Michael's father certainly had screwy concepts of celebrity, pushing his kid into the public arena and denying him a normal childhood. His priorities were screwed up to say the least. He thought it was more important for his kid to be rich and famous than it was for him to be happy. That really sucks.

 

[Numb1075]

Trial? What trial?

IMHO, I think Michael Jackson is guilty of these crimes and probably many more. But w/ $ and high priced lawyers, I don't see him spending any time in jail.

 

[verte76]

Trial? What trial?

IMHO, I think Michael Jackson is guilty of these crimes and probably many more. But w/ $ and high priced lawyers, I don't see him spending any time in jail.

It's true that $ and high-priced lawyers have gotten alot of guilty people declared innocent, and this isn't fair. This guy is so far removed from reality, I don't think he has a sense of right or wrong, he thinks he can do anything because he's a celebrity. That's sick.

 

[Numb1075]

He is warped beyond repair and I don't think jail time will correct his flawed perceptions of right and wrong.

 

[redkat]

I think he's guilty but the whole thing is so sad. What is wrong with Jesse Jackson? Used to respect the man now he's a mouthpiece for Michael Jackson a guy that compares his life to that of Nelson Mandela right there Jesse should have said WTF I don't think Mandela's prison can be compared to Neverland.

Jacko is a smart manipulator. Have you seen what Oprah and Lisa Marie said about him? Everything he does is calculated.

 

[Numb1075]

What did Oprah and Lisa Marie say?

 

[redkat]

They both said that he has a "real" voice that's more like a man. A voice we've never heard and that when they met him he sat them down and explained away all of the misconceptions about him. He makes you feel like he's trusting in you.

Priscilla said that he started contacting her about meeting Lisa Marie when she was only 16. His intention was to have the King's grandchild so they did consumate the marriage. Lisa said that she hardly ever saw him when they were married and that whenever the public displays of affection occured she felt used and was caught off guard. It sounds like she really did have feelings for him. She was hesitant to say anything negative but her mom wasn't and neither was Oprah.

The real voice thing creeps me out.

 

[Maggie1]

I don't think he is guilty and I believe this is all about money. If he is convicted, it is a sad day for the justice system.

 

[Angela Harlem]

redkat, he has used his real voice before in public and even in his music. in Bad he yells with the full vocal bass of an ordinary man. i saw him in concert once, and it was like watching a chameleon.
i reckon society falls very short of understanding of him.

 

[Aussie]

Anyone who sleeps with young boys is guilty, it's a crime.
I'm sick of people using their supposed horrible childhood
as an excuse to commit a crime. Even famous people know
what's right and wrong.
People get charged for having child pornography on their
computers, having a child in your bed is much, much worse.
Why would a grown man have a child in his bed for, other than
to molest them?

 

[nbcrusader]

I don't think he is guilty and I believe this is all about money. If he is convicted, it is a sad day for the justice system.

How is this about money? There is no monetary fine in this criminal matter.

On the contrary, if he is not convicted, it may be a sad day for the justice system when a wealthy star uses expensive attorneys to stay out of jail.

 

[Liesje]

How is this about money? There is no monetary fine in this criminal matter.

On the contrary, if he is not convicted, it may be a sad day for the justice system when a wealthy star uses expensive attorneys to stay out of jail.

Not to mention that Jackson is billions in debt.

 

[anitram]

Not to mention that Jackson is billions in debt.

And yet he holds onto that Beatles catalogue like the fool that he is.

 

[verte76]

It's only about money insofar as the accusers are after Jacko's bucks. But as LivLuv points out the guy is billions of dollars in debt--one rumor said 3 billion, I don't know how true a show biz rumor is, but it's clear that it's a bunch of dough. If he's acquitted it may indeed be a case of a celebrity with high-priced lawyers getting off. I really don't know what to think.

 

[Maggie1]

How is this about money? There is no monetary fine in this criminal matter.

On the contrary, if he is not convicted, it may be a sad day for the justice system when a wealthy star uses expensive attorneys to stay out of jail.

In my opinion, those people will file a lawsuit for money when the trial is over. They will also get a book deal. Thats how it is about money.

 

[redkat]

redkat, he has used his real voice before in public and even in his music. in Bad he yells with the full vocal bass of an ordinary man. i saw him in concert once, and it was like watching a chameleon.
i reckon society falls very short of understanding of him.

I know what you are saying and the things discussed on Oprah certainly don't mean he must be a child molester. It's the entirety of the thing and other things that he has done over the years. He really is brilliant. By that I mean manipulative. In the context of what Oprah and the Pressleys were saying it was creepy. The thing with the voice is that singing is different. Bono has some different personas on stage and in songs. It's entirely different than trying to maintain different personalities around different people.

Bottom line the things that we know he did are enough in this state to land you in prison if it was my husband or brother sleeping with young boys /giving them alcohol they would have been put away a long time ago.

Regardless of the ethics of the accusers family. the point is keeping Jackson away from other kids.

 

[nbcrusader]

In my opinion, those people will file a lawsuit for money when the trial is over. They will also get a book deal. Thats how it is about money.

What the victims do after the verdict is no reflection on the criminal justice system.

If the evidence supports the claim beyond a reasonable doubt, justice is served.