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Old 08-19-2002, 05:23 PM   #1
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Is it really worth showing this, CNN ?

Hello,

I saw something on television that was originally aired by CNN. Its tapes from Al-Quaeda, showing them testing some bacteriological or chemichal stuff on dogs, and also showing Bin Laden visiting his troops, military demonstrations, etc, etc...

There is a pretty big media halo around this, surely propelled by the US Government administration who wants to constantly keep people's minds focused on "Good vs Evil".

What would you expected from Al-Quaeda ?

My question goes : Is it worth showing these tapes on a television that, even though its based in the US with a US point of view is boradcasted all over the world ? I mean, I've got some points I'd like to say, and I have to say I'm not defending Al-Quaeda at all :

- Military demonstration and Bin Laden on tape : no problem with that, we saw this and its, anyways, clear that Al-Quaeda had those (and maybe still have) training camps. I mean, any organized guerilla or movement of that kind does have bases. No big deal.

- Chemical and bacteriological stuff : Maybe that was worth of showing it, but it was evident anyways that a movement as well organized as Al-Quaeda had those and could make some. I mean, if you can get guns in the US easily, in other countries you can get nuclear almost on the corner of the street (its a metaform, but still...)

- Showing dogs ? This was deliberate to touch people's heart. I mean, medicine and drugs are tested on animals and it arrives to the same situation. Militaries from around the world uses chemical and bacteriological weapons, even the US does. They surely tested it on someone. Same thing goes for nuclear weapons (the US bombed civilians with it). Was it accurate showing dogs getting killed by Al-Quaeda ? It is barbarian, but "civilisation" (as Bush likes to call it) don't have clean hands too.
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Old 08-19-2002, 05:43 PM   #2
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Are you out of your bleeping mind? Of course it's newsworthy. If CNN had video of the U.S. army gassing dogs you'd better believe that they'd air it.

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Old 08-19-2002, 05:46 PM   #3
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Maybe AlQueda could show Osama in a more "Philanthropic" video perhaps posing/ helping HIV victims would that be suitable for you John?

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Old 08-19-2002, 07:00 PM   #4
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I saw those tapes this afternoon and I thought it was newsworthy, but you bring up a good point that needs to be made. The media will knowingly filter their news so that it supports American interests. I bet that there is plenty of unflattering footage of American military actions, but because it may be deemed unpatriotic to shed too much light on it, the media will bury it.
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Old 08-19-2002, 07:10 PM   #5
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it was a good anti-propoganda against Al-queda and Iraq , but now i can say , there are thousandsmedical universities , facilities , military centers in europe , usa and other civilized countries where they do all this chemichal , poison expirement stuff . some shock . i hate cnn for what i saw . but then again there are a lot of labs where normal non criminal people do all those things .
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Old 08-19-2002, 08:43 PM   #6
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Oh, never mind.
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Old 08-19-2002, 08:51 PM   #7
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Was anyone naive enough to believe terrorists did not this capability before the tapes were shown? If you can build a bomb with some plain old fertilizer, you can make a cheap form of gas. CNN just sensationalized it for its own ratings in its competition with Fox News and MSNBC.

I'm sorry I had to watch a cute puppy die but I'll get over it and see these tapes for what they really are
1) documented visual evidence of information the government has known about even before Sept. 11
2) a way for CNN to get as much exposure as possible

I commend the reporter who was in Afghanistan to get these tapes. I truly do believe he thought he was doing his public service as a journalist and I believe that's exactly what he did. But CNN cheapened his work to get ratings.
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Old 08-19-2002, 10:05 PM   #8
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I'm not out of my mind, I'm just questionning things I don't really get. Things like showing tapes of Al-Qaeda members testing chemical products on dogs. Showing dying dogs on CNN, a world-wide broadcaster with an american point of view (does that seem paradoxal to you) under the label : "This is the proof that they are the absolute evil". Isn't American television too-often censored on thos kind of things ? Why did they showed it now ?

Why haven't they shown dogs get killed while having beauty-products tested on them, as it happens everyday in America or in any country of the "civilised world" (ask Bush wich are those countries, he decided that a couple of times ago). Why, during World War II, haven't they shown "survivors" (would you really like to survive" of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (at that time, apparently a "military base" according to the press). Occidental countries have develloped nuclear, bacteriological and chemichal weapons. They know its deadly and there is several accounts on tests on animals and humans (I've seen a documentary on this, with human picture and tapes... you really don't want to know the effects). Why don't they show this ? They devellop new "improved" bacteriological an chemical weapons each year, why don't they show the tests on CNN ? Why would Al-Qaeda be the absolute evil when the US Military, or any military testing those, don't have their hands clean ?
Why do those tapes have more effects on people than the proven fact (by the New York Times) that the US helped Irak during its war with Iran ? Why does dying dogs have more effect than the fact that Bin Laden and the Jihad was helped by the US during the USSR/Afghanistan war ? I'm not defending Al-Qaeda at all and even though I critizise the way the was against the taliban was done (and still is), I agree the only way to get these people out is by "war".

These tapes have effects on the people. It shows defenseless dogs (nice dogs too) being killed by Al-Qaeda Taliban monsters. Therefore, it have an immediate effect on the population. It serves CNN in both ways : it shows that they are very patriotic and plus they have a pretty good scoop. Second, it serves the US Administration, both in and out the US : "See, we were right. These are bad people. There is still some, let's catch them". Don't tell me the US Administration didn't knew CNN was to show these tapes. IF not, bravo to the private enterprise acting alone for its own benefit.

I'm not out of my mind. I'm a citizen taking action. I do not live in the US, but everyday I'm bombarded with the US point of view, I even receive a lot of American channels on my television (damn north american television rights), but I do not approve having a foreing point of view imposed to me. I'm questionning actions of a country wich stands alone without really caring about its neighboors and allies opinion when it differs. Questionning, critisizing but not bashing (I'm taking a History of the USA class this session in fact). Objectivity don't exist, but still... there's plenty of place left for improvement.
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Old 08-19-2002, 10:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holy John
Why haven't they shown dogs get killed while having beauty-products tested on them, as it happens everyday in America or in any country of the "civilised world" (ask Bush wich are those countries, he decided that a couple of times ago). Why, during World War II, haven't they shown "survivors" (would you really like to survive" of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (at that time, apparently a "military base" according to the press).
They have shown these things; I have seen it on mainstream, network television here in the U.S.

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Old 08-19-2002, 11:21 PM   #10
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It's all supposed to make a lasting impression on people so that they take an interest in all of this and help take a stand...

But then again, after 9/11, the same low amount of people are paying attention to the news now as before the attacks, so maybe its just for a short-lived boost...

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Old 08-20-2002, 12:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000
Are you out of your bleeping mind? Of course it's newsworthy. If CNN had video of the U.S. army gassing dogs you'd better believe that they'd air it.

MAP

Yes, it is newsworhty but where are the video`s of all those animals that are dieing from testing lipstick or parfum ? Or the video`s of all those poor animals that are in bad housing only for our meat consumption ?

Those Al-Qaeda tapes are only aired to show that Taliban an Al-Qaeda terrorist are monsters and for the sensation of it.
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:37 AM   #12
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Maybe it is a plan of Al-Qaeda to put fear into our minds. Let CNN find those tapes, they will put it on air and the fear will be spread.
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Old 08-20-2002, 01:53 AM   #13
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Holy John and Rono,

I can only assume that you're grossly uneducated about American television. I have seen dozens, literally dozens, of television specials about the living conditions of laboratory animals in the United States. It's such a mainstream issue here in America that it's been discussed ad naseum by everyone from Michael Stipe to Pamela Anderson Lee of Baywatch fame. I recall a comic strip called Bloom County which ran daily in thousands of American newspapers doing a long running spoof on the fate of laboratory animals used in cosmetics testing. I even remember an 80's movie starring Matthew Broderick of Ferris Bueller fame which dealt with the fate of primates used in military testing. It was marketed toward teenagers. Much the same can be said about coverage of the quality of "life" for feed animals such as cows and chickens. I doubt sincerely that there is a U.S. citizen over the age of 12 who hasn't seen television footage of chicken farms or slaughterhouses, or who hasn't heard about chickens with their beaks cut off and feet nailed to the floor etc, etc...
Heck, I've seen American Interference members profess a desire to go vegetarian because of footage they've seen of slaughter houses.

Having said this, you're missing a small, but significant aspect of the newsworthiness of the CNN footage: the gassing of the dogs was a test run for usage on AMERICAN CITIZENS. PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS.

If it were footage of, oh say, a Korean grocer killing a dog and chopping it up for human consumption I would concede your point and chock up the hysteria to cultural differences. But it's not and I hope you can understand the difference. Because if you can't then you're either a bit slow on the uptake or worse.

Has the U.S. government run similar tests and worse, much worse? Of course it has. How do I know? Because I learned about it from history classes and from TELEVISION programming like 60 Minutes and even CNN.

Footage of Al Queda testing poison or nerve gas and discussing killing Americans to "get rid of them" IS NEWSWORTHY. You'd have to be pretty dim to think otherwise. What should CNN have done? Not run the footage because Americans like dogs?

Unbelievable.

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Old 08-20-2002, 03:03 AM   #14
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I can kinda see your point Holy John, but the use of the dogs in the footage was used perhaps just to reach a wider audience. Is more expected from the media though? Times like this is not expected the media go for a soft angle when representing your enemy. Why would CNN give the Al Qaeda any when they can be shown in a bit of footage for exactly what they are? I dont expect this is any different in any country. I doubt their type sit around watching footage of July 4 fireworks. Perhaps it is mild propaganda, but it would be more ludicrous to show them in a kinder light. What purpose would that serve? Any country that has animal abuse will at some time, air docos on this. Thats fine when it is an issue of animal cruelty, but when you can can educate your audience with video of your enemy, it will be used and it will be news. The outcry would be worse if CNN tried to portray them in a friendlier setting. I generally dont like the media at the best of times, but you cry war, and its no holds barred.
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:04 AM   #15
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I agree it is unsettling, but as Angela Harlem said, its the times we live in. Think of it as more of a reinforcment of the forces this country is fighting...I'm not convinced it was informational, because it's not like we don't know the possibilities of these organizations. It's supposed to remind us of what this country is up against, and who America is up against in this "war on terrorism".
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Old 08-20-2002, 08:53 AM   #16
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http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...2p-11521c.html

The plot thickens and I want to take back some of what I said about the reporter in this case trying to do his public duty by getting these tapes. Turns out he/CNN paid for the tapes.

I particularly like this quote:
"Robertson, who has been reporting from Afghanistan for a year, would not characterize his sources or how the transaction for the tapes was done. But he said none of the money paid went to Al Qaeda."

And exactly how does he know this? How exactly does he know who these people are? How could they get access to these tapes if they weren't al Qaeda? And where did that money go? To feed poor starving children in Afghanistan?

Anyone who receives a five figure payment in Afghanistan instantly becomes a rich man. If this "source" is not part of al Qaeda, the al Qaeda will easily find out who he is, find him and kill him. And if he is part of al Qadea, CNN just bought more materials to use in attacks against Americans.
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:00 AM   #17
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the tapes were definetely newsworthy. images of the dogs struggling...they had to be shown and yes, CNN knew it was going to be stellar for its ratings(they transcend ratings this morning as all media outlets cite them as the source) and they did provide adequate warning of the disturbing content.

BUT i see where you're coming from HJ. i believe your point is much better made in the overall presentation of american military acts by CNN. the 'video-gamification' of military actions is increasingly becoming more popular and CNN is leading the way.
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Old 08-20-2002, 01:51 PM   #18
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This may be from the same tapes:

Previously unseen tape shows bin Laden's declaration of war
From Nic Robertson
CNN

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) --A never-before-seen al Qaeda video obtained by CNN shows Osama bin Laden declaring war against the United States and the West.

The tape of a May 26, 1998, news conference is among 64 obtained in Afghanistan from a source, who said the tapes were found in an Afghan house where bin Laden had stayed. Experts say the collection of tapes sheds new light on al Qaeda's training, capabilities and mindset.

"By God's grace," bin Laden says on the tape, "we have formed with many other Islamic groups and organizations in the Islamic world a front called the International Islamic Front to do jihad against the crusaders and Jews."

"And by God's grace," he says at another point in the tape, "the men ... are going to have a successful result in killing Americans and getting rid of them."

CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen, who interviewed bin Laden a year earlier, believes the tape depicts a key moment for al Qaeda.

"They're going public," Bergen said. "They're saying, 'We're having this war against the United States.'"

Accompanying bin Laden on the video are Ayman Al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's right-hand man and inspirational ally, and military adviser Mohammad Atef, who died last November in coalition bombing.

Although a select group of Pakistani journalists and one Chinese writer were invited to witness as al Qaeda launched its jihad on the West, the event never got wide exposure because no independent videotaping was allowed.

Ismail Khan was one of the journalists there that day.

"We were given a few instructions, you know, on how to photograph and only take a picture of Osama and the two leaders who were going to sit close by him. Nobody else," Khan said.

Rohan Gunaratna, an international terrorism expert and author of "Inside Al Qaeda," suggests security was a key reason for keeping the video under wraps.

"Making that tape public would compromise the security of al Qaeda and of Osama bin Laden," he said. "They did not release that tape."

Among those who appear with bin Laden are the two sons of Sheik Abdul Rahman, the spiritual leader of those convicted of blowing up the World Trade Center in 1993. He is now in a U.S. prison for planning other attacks on New York.

Bergen says the significance of the sons' presence at the press conference "can't be underestimated." They distribute what they claim is the will of their father, which calls for attacks on Americans.

"The purported will states, 'Attack them on the sea. Attack them on the land. Attack them everywhere. Attack their economy,'" Bergen said.

The connection to Rahman, Bergen said, is key for bin Laden, who uses the sheik's spiritual guidance as a religious fig leaf from behind which bin Laden broadens his terror groups' appeal to radicals.

With hindsight, the important moments on the video are easy to pick out, including bin Laden hinting at an attack on U.S. targets.

Within 11 weeks of the declaration, al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in bombings that killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.

And perhaps almost as chilling, because it didn't happen, al-Zawahiri appears to justify an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt.
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Old 08-20-2002, 08:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
The media will knowingly filter their news so that it supports American interests. I bet that there is plenty of unflattering footage of American military actions, but because it may be deemed unpatriotic to shed too much light on it, the media will bury it.
You aren't telling the truth.

Look at the thread that posts an article from MSNBC, a U.S. media source, critical about the U.S.'s alleged negligence as to potential atrocities the Northern Alliance and Afghan interim governments.

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Old 08-20-2002, 08:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
but where are the video`s of all those animals that are dieing from testing lipstick or parfum ? Or the video`s of all those poor animals that are in bad housing only for our meat consumption ?

Those Al-Qaeda tapes are only aired to show that Taliban an Al-Qaeda terrorist are monsters and for the sensation of it.
The videos of all of those animals dying from testing lipstick or perfume are shown occasionally on all major outlets of the U.S. media. I have seen it.

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