Is GW Bush a Moron>? - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
View Poll Results: Is Bush a Moron?
Yes 48 64.86%
No 26 35.14%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-05-2002, 08:06 PM   #61
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Bonoman,

Why would people in Africa or any country where someone would or choose to pick to live somewhere else pick the USA? Notice they don't pick Canada or Sweden as much as the USA. I also stated where would someone want to live BESIDES their own country. If you asked people even in prosperous countries I'm sure the USA would come out on top as the country where people would want to live. If you don't think so, who do you believe would be #1?

Actions speak louder than words or an occasional opinion poll, and based on that people still love the USA. I have traveled extensivly in Ireland and the United Kingdom and spoken to people who were there from Italy, France, and Germany. No one and I mean no one told me that they hated America. I have very good friends in Italy and they love America. They want to move to San Francisco one day. Oh and trading with someone may not mean they actually like you, but it sure as hell does not mean they hate you!

Let me inform you that without security the health of your childern won't be much of an issue, especially if their dead. A nation and its citizens cannot not survive if they are not secure first. Security comes first. I remind you that terrorist could strike in Canada at any time. In addition, a cut off of supply from the middle east would effect Canada in the same way it would effect the USA. The price of oil or energy would skyrocket, people will then have to spend more of their money on just buying energy leading to economic depression, massive unemployment, and health and other problems on a scale to make the current situation anywhere look like disney land. Thats not in anyones interest and providing more funding to defense and security is a way to prevent that disaster from happening. America does much of this and its time that the Allies stepped up to the plate and do more as well.

You love your country because it has different Ideals than mine. I guess that means you'll hate it if its Ideals are ever the same as the USA.

I never stated that people were not happy in their own countries. I stated that if people were to pick a different country besides their own as a place to live, the USA would come out on top.

If the rest of the worlds countries do not like the USA, why do they continue to purchase over 1 Trillion dollars of our goods? Why do they continue to ask us for help in many areas? Why do they try to employ American citizens in their countries? Why do they consider the USA the most important foreign market to sell goods and services to? Oh and why did the large international body, the United Nations representing all nations vote 15-0 to support the president of the United States policy on Iraq?

From that very poll, why do most Germans and Russians have a favorable opinion of the USA?

You take a few countries that have unfavorable opinions and extrapolate that into the world hates America. Thats simply unobjective and obviously false.
__________________

STING2 is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 08:39 PM   #62
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

You take a few countries that have unfavorable opinions and extrapolate that into the world hates America. Thats simply unobjective and obviously false.
lol, obviously? uh, not so fast there...

i have not talked to anyone that can say a kind word about america. and americans? its worse

americans are perceived as abnoxious, ignorant and money driven maniacs willing to do anything to get up the corporate ladder in the international community.

you can write long posts all day sting but your just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

bonoman, again, i commend you on a very well written response.
__________________

Zoomerang96 is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 08:59 PM   #63
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 02:35 AM

bear-
sting and i only think and say nice things about little ppl like u..

thank u-

diamond
diamond is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 09:45 PM   #64
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Zoomerang96,

I'm digging myself deeper and deeper? I'm simply explaining my well informed view points. If you've not talked to anyone that can say a kind word about America, it would seem you do not know very many people, or socialize only with people with an extremely narrow view point. Again, I say, it would seem.

I understand you perceive Americans as abnoxious, ignorant and money driven maniacs willing to do anything to get up the corporate ladder in the international community.

Sorry, but I know and have met people all over the world who do not feel as you do. My sister currently works for one of the largest British Accounting firms in their Dublin Ireland office. Nearly everyone she works with is NOT American. She lives with a guy from Manchester England and a girl from Cork Ireland. Your idea's of foreign impressions of America does not exist in the way you percieve it there.
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 10:12 PM   #65
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,730
Local Time: 04:35 AM
Sting, there are large populations of people in every single country in the world (the USA included) which do not have a favourable view of the USA. You triumphantly stated on another thread that 53% of Germans have a favourable view. What about the other 47%??? This is tens of MILLIONS of people just in that country. Now go add all the others and you have a hell of a lot of people whose existence you either don't wish to acknowledge or you write them off as Islamic fanaticists who want to bomb children. Come on now.

What I think you should really want to think about is why educated western people whose culture is so similar to yours (look no further than the Canadians and other western Europeans) who don't live in Palestine and raise suicide bombers have this anger and mistrust in them. It's not poverity, it's not subjugation or closed minded cultures or religious fanaticism. IT's something else. Why not look at that and see what amount of responsibility the US government must take in these matters than simply writing so many people off as kooks. They can't all be crazy, they can't all be wrong. It's time to wake up and smell the international coffee.
anitram is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 10:51 PM   #66
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Antrium,

Their not crazy. I haven't specifically or clearly stated that was indeed the case. The claims here were about the majority and the Majority hates America and I have countered that claim and shown that is not so overall. I have not dismissed the minority. I certainly do listen to their views. I read everything here by people that have opposite opinions and views that I have. In this forum I'm certainly in the minority. You can't accuse me of ingoring, writing off, or not acknowledging others points of view.

I have looked and studied many arguements for and against several international policy issues and have come to my own conclusions which I currently believe to be correct. I could easily ask you the same question. Have you ever thought why western educated people in many countries around the world do support the USA?
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 10:53 PM   #67
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM

I sniffed some international Coffee in Dublin last weekened and it did not smell the way many people here claim it should.
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-05-2002, 10:54 PM   #68
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,683
Local Time: 03:35 AM
wink

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
americans are perceived as abnoxious, ignorant and money driven maniacs willing to do anything to get up the corporate ladder in the international community.
you forgot about the rudeness: butting in lines, flipping people off (like if you honked because they were about to hit you or are sitting at a green light), not holding doors...
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 12:29 AM   #69
The Fly
 
babble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lynn Haven, FL
Posts: 145
Local Time: 03:35 AM
Normal

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96

lol, obviously? uh, not so fast there...

i have not talked to anyone that can say a kind word about america. and americans? its worse

americans are perceived as abnoxious, ignorant and money driven maniacs willing to do anything to get up the corporate ladder in the international community.
Main Entry: 1prej∑u∑dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
babble is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 01:55 PM   #70
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 02:35 AM
Sting you overestimate the love for america. I too have lived in Ireland and for everyone person you say loves america i will find 5 that dont. You are in Dublin, if you've ever been eanywhere else in Ireland you will soon relize that Dublin is different from every other place. Listen the majority of people dont like the Us and most of them have different reasons. Even if the whole of the muslim world hates the US doesnt mean that its not valid. Muslims are a large perscentage of the world and do matter. The US is not a liked nation. There is no getting around that but you do not relize that. The sooner you relize it the sooner your country can get on track to solve it. You can talk to people all over the world and they will tell you they like ameria it depends on who you askl. Your statements on USA being the most desired place to live are unfounded and unproven. Get me reliable stats and maybe i will give it a bit more attention.
bonoman is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 02:25 PM   #71
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 04:35 AM
ok babble, if im prejudiced, then tell me, not prove to me, since that would be next to impossible, that you know what the capitol of canada is, our prime minister, which state has bismark as its capitol, and which beach did mostly canadian forces attempt to land during world war 2 fail so miserably?

my brother who is only in grade 7 has to know all 50 states and their capitols. what the hell do americans know about canada? that its to the north.

again, i repeat, i went to university for one semester, and there were many people there who had never been to canada. they live TWO hours away from the border. they think its colder up there and that we have to use snowmobiles to get around.

this is not just one or two people. this is as broad of a generalization as you thinking that im stereotying every american.

you simply do not comprehend it, and like bonoman said, the sooner america realizes they cant shoot all of their enemies, the better off they'll be.
Zoomerang96 is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 03:13 PM   #72
Blue Crack Addict
 
MissVelvetDress_75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: basking in my post-concert glow still mesmerized by the orbit of his hips..Also Holding Bono Close as he requested.
Posts: 25,776
Local Time: 05:35 AM

just popping in to say that I am truly enjoying all of the debates about the American gov't in this forum. All of your opinions, views and assumptions about the American gov't and American's are very interesting.


carry on.
MissVelvetDress_75 is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 03:54 PM   #73
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 04:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

you forgot about the rudeness: butting in lines, flipping people off (like if you honked because they were about to hit you or are sitting at a green light), not holding doors...
right, and this sort of thing doesnt happen ANYWHERE else in the world.

Zoomerang96 is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 08:18 PM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Bonoman,

I have been all over Ireland and I have never had anyone tell me they hate America. I dated a girl from County Kerry briefly. I met her roomate from Spain, and her Irish roomate. I went out with their friends who from all different parts of Ireland.

I've met up with French people in Scotland and Ireland and when they found out I was American, I got swamped with people talking to me for hours.

If you know of a more desired place to live besides the United States if people were to choose a different place other than their own country, NAME THE COUNTRY!
Why do you think more people from Third World Countries attempt to live in the USA than any other single country on the planet?

Reliable stats? Where are your reliable stats that the majority of people on the planet hate America? They don't exist! Not even in the poll of 44 countries.

Clearly the actions of most governments and people show that they do like America as I have already demonstrated from trade and business. In addition, the United Nations has come out in support of Bush's policy, voting 15-0 to support Bush's resolution on Iraq.

In any event, were never going to change sound and good US Policy just so a few people in an Opinion poll will say they that like us. We did not become a strong country by behaving like that. Were not going to compromise our security or international security just to make a few people happy. Appeasment kills 10s of millions of people as we found out in World War II.

You can speculate that everyone hates America all you like, but the facts and my personal experience and the personal experience of my friends and family do not support that view at all. Since I guess you hate America, it would be comforting for you to know or assume that the rest of world feels the same way. But its simply not the case.
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-06-2002, 08:36 PM   #75
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,683
Local Time: 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
right, and this sort of thing doesnt happen ANYWHERE else in the world.
nevah!
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 12-07-2002, 02:56 AM   #76
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 02:35 AM
I hate America yeah Sting, when have you seen in any of my posts that i say i hate America? I have actually said i like America and like American things. And if you for some reason missed it i will say it again. I like America and some American things.

You saying that from all the people you have meet loved America does nothing for me. If you say you have been to Ireland so many times and know so many people then you would be lying if you are insinuating that everyone not from Dublin are diffeerent. You obviluoslly never worked on a farm in Ireland. Trust me i am a cultchie i know what its like to be in the heart of Ireland. I am not talking about Galway or Dublin or Cork or even Kerry i'm talking about Mayo or Roscommon or West Meath, Meath, these are the places i speak of.

I dont know but opionin polls from one of the highly touted and most respectable polling agents in the world is a little evidence enough for me, along with the media, what i see right here and what i see from people i know. I am absoulutly postive that the rest of the world does not like your country, no not hate, not like.

And if you care to mention the 15-0 UN resoulution over and over and I dimiss it with no importance in the debate you can do it all you want. Big deal they passed a 15-0 resoulution for a chance at peace. What the fuck is your point. Everyone in the world wants peace!!! I ahve never stated that America wants bloodshed. Rather contrary, i think the majority of Americans would rather the bloodshed. But there is powerful people who think that war is right. I'm not saying Bush but there are the people who think war is the best medicene to a rescesion. And it problely is.

What you dont understand is that you have been to Ireland, where they are generally favorable about Americans, you have talked to a French person in Dublin and they say they love America, and you say many friends and family know people who love America. So let me get this straight you have talk to tops a hundred people and they Love America and you figure the rest of the world loves you. Oh yeah have you ever thought that if someone hated Americans theywould choose not to converse with you? I t has to me, thats why you know of more people that like you then hate you. Your so called experience tells me you are a very naive person for taking everyones opinion for face value.

You still have not given me and proff of your claim that America is the most desired place to live other then their own country. I am not saying you are totally false but i will not take your word. Whatever made you think that other countries, like Canada being the most multi-culteral country in the world, would be number 1. And if you have proff give it to me in perspective of country size and allowed immigrants.
bonoman is offline  
Old 12-07-2002, 03:35 AM   #77
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Bonoman,

Wow, your another person I can add to the growing list of those that "like" America. Welcome to the party!

I never said people in Kerry or Cork were the same as people in Dublin, I just said that they like America. The girl I dated from Kerry back in January, her best friend is from Pakistan and she likes America as well.

I never worked on a farm in Ireland, but my sister's boyfriend grew up on a farm in Kerry. My ancestors are from Leitrim! People like America there too. Have you ever been to the Aran Islands? When I was on Inishmore where everyone still speaks Irish, I was treated like a king. The people there were extremely nice to me, even more so than on the mainland. Wow, another thought just popped into my mind, I had farmer in a Galway pub by me 4 pints and sang to me in Irish! We talked all night about America and Politics. I'm being honest when I say I have never had a foreigner tell me that they did not like America.

I will say this, my sister went to see a doctor in Dublin. The Doctor was Egyptian and asked who she thought was worse, Saddam or Bush. Thats about as close as anyone has gotten to not liking America in my sisters experiences. I've not experienced anything like that at all.

Lets see this scientific polling data that proves that more than 50% of the worlds population clearly does not like America!?

Actually war is expensive and only in rare cases does it truely cause economic expansion and better economic health. Most of the time the effects are depressive. The 1991 recession in the United States was partly caused by the Gulf War.

Its not just the fact that I have talked to 1 hundred foreigners or so that like America, but that I have never come across someone who did not like America, not once! Secondly, I have never seen any scientific polling data that would indicate that the majority of the worlds population does not like America.
Oh, I am naive for believing what people have said to me!?!?! I should assume that they were all lying to me?!?! You can't prove that anyone was lying. In this case, your the one that might be a little naive.

That would be some interesting facts to dig up, which country has the most multi-cultural society and the most allowed immigrants. I'll work on getting that hard data. In the mean time you have yet to provide Scientific polling data that proves that over 50% of the worlds population does not like America.
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-07-2002, 04:01 AM   #78
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 08:35 PM
What do Irish farmers have to do with Bush again? I've lost this thread
I'm actually wondering if you both (STING2 and bonoman) are still talking about the same thing? I'd also say *most* people dont hate America. I certainly dont think anyone here has a dislike for the country in general anyways. Politics and the face of American politics, GW, for some, but that is not "America". That is not the people, the culture. People you meet in a pub, or by association wont immediately start a verbal attack on why they hate the country you may be from either. On the whole, people are more friendly than that surely. I've no doubt all the people you have met on your travels STING2 genuinely do like America. But if they didn't, how many would start to criticise your country anyway? Its rudeness most people dont display to visitors from overseas when they meet.
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 12-07-2002, 04:48 AM   #79
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:35 AM
Angela,

Its certainly a valid point. Then again, everyone is not necessarily polite all the time, especially when a few pints of the black stuff has been consumed. Several hours of conversation can be productive in learning how people feel about things. Certainly my sisters experience in living and working in Dublin for over a year now is informative.

Bonoman has been informing me how deeply involved in cultural Ireland he has been, the Irish farm, where the real Ireland is I guess, according to Bonoman. What does it have to do with Bush? Bonoman thinks most Irish farmers don't like Bush, I think. I think what he was trying to say is, is that only a real Irish answer can come from the real part of Ireland or something like that, correct me if I'm wrong.
Its basically an attempt to invalidate my experiences and conversations with people in Ireland. People who have expressed affection for and or like America.
STING2 is offline  
Old 12-07-2002, 09:33 AM   #80
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
what the hell do americans know about canada?
A toque is a hat! A chesterfield is a coat! And it IS pronounced "zed"! Not "zee"! "Zed"!

Canada is the world's 2nd largest landmass! The FIRST nation of hockey! And the BEST...PART...OF NORTH...AMERICA!
--Joe Canada

In all seriousness, I know a lot about Canada. I know the name and capitals of all the provinces and I can pick them out on a map. I know the names and locations of many, many hockey teams. I know that you have a prime minister, not a president (Jean Chretien). I mean, I'm not an expert on Canada or anything (well, maybe among Americans, I am), but I do know and care about "our most important neighbor to the north" (in the words of Dubya. I can even sing "O Canada" in its entirety--even while drunk, which is usually when I sing it.

So don't say that Americans know nothing about Canada!
__________________

__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×