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Old 03-26-2004, 01:04 PM   #1
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Iraqi cleric: 9/11 was a 'miracle from God'

Now, how does this help their cause?

From CNN

Quote:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- An influential Shiite cleric in Iraq called Israel's assassination of the spiritual leader of Hamas a "dirty crime against Islam" and the September 11, 2001, terror attacks "a miracle from God."
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:58 PM   #2
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This guy is one of these Wahhabist fanatics. I'll bet he's in cahoots with the jerks who bombed the Shia mosque.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:13 PM   #3
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I think all humans around the world should just shut up and quit trying to speak for God, because it seems no one understands God.
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:11 PM   #4
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and if we took him out we'd be slammed for assasinating a spiritual leader...
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:25 PM   #5
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Nice...I don't know, sometimes I start thinking people like that might not be the only ones who feel that way
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:47 PM   #6
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Where has everyone been...I started a thread on this guy last summer.

Moqtada al-Sadr has been a thorn in the coalition side since the liberation. He is supposedly responsible for the assassination of one of the exiled clerics that supported the US.

His father and uncle were assasinated by Saddam. His uncle was one of the most influential clerics of his time. Many refered to him as the Ghandi of Islam.

This Kid (24 years old I believe) has clout. A section of Bagdhad now bears his families name. He was featured on 60 minutes back in the fall.

He has started his own courts that operate outside the jurisdiction of the governing council.

Bad news...this guy,.
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:04 PM   #7
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Religion.

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Old 03-26-2004, 07:45 PM   #8
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From "THEIR" point of view.

It is a miracle.


perhaps a bit like the story of "David and Goliath".
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Where has everyone been...I started a thread on this guy last summer.

Moqtada al-Sadr has been a thorn in the coalition side since the liberation. He is supposedly responsible for the assassination of one of the exiled clerics that supported the US.

His father and uncle were assasinated by Saddam. His uncle was one of the most influential clerics of his time. Many refered to him as the Ghandi of Islam.

This Kid (24 years old I believe) has clout. A section of Bagdhad now bears his families name. He was featured on 60 minutes back in the fall.

He has started his own courts that operate outside the jurisdiction of the governing council.

Bad news...this guy,.
I remember that. Yeah, bad news indeed. Is he Sunni or Shia? I can't remember. He's a no matter which, but that might define how much political power he's able to get. The advantage a guy like al-Sistani has is that he's Shia, the majority in Iraq. Many in the Middle East are looking at him for democratic hopes, and he has many supporters in Iran as well who hope he can help them against the government crackdown on pro-democracy Iranians.
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:30 PM   #10
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Fuck him.
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Old 03-27-2004, 12:34 AM   #11
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God's gotta be fuming over that claim, I'm sure.

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Old 03-27-2004, 01:54 AM   #12
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Yeah, do not even try to understand it.


I will try,..

His god planned this attacks because it made America attacking Iraq and "free" him from Saddam. Now he has the chance to make Iraq a Moslim state ( afcourse by God`s rules ) So it was God`s will,....
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:40 AM   #13
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Give me a dozen real Iraqi Nationalists and a good charismatic leader and I will give you a progressive arab nation. Look at turkey it isnt impossible and it must be done for both international stability and arab pride (An entire belt of dictatorial and repressive regimes and call the west morally bankrupt).
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Old 03-27-2004, 08:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Yeah, do not even try to understand it.


I will try,..

His god planned this attacks because it made America attacking Iraq and "free" him from Saddam. Now he has the chance to make Iraq a Moslim state ( afcourse by God`s rules ) So it was God`s will,....
wouldn't that make the loss of life america suffered 'worth' more than all the people saddam has killed over the years?

you're right though, there is no understanding it.
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Old 03-27-2004, 08:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Give me a dozen real Iraqi Nationalists and a good charismatic leader and I will give you a progressive arab nation. Look at turkey it isnt impossible and it must be done for both international stability and arab pride (An entire belt of dictatorial and repressive regimes and call the west morally bankrupt).
Turkey is not an "Arab" state; Turks are ethnically Turkish and not Arabic. It *is* a Moslem democracy and some people see the Turkish prime minister as someone who could impact the Middle East big time for democracy as he is a practicing Sunni Moslem with an alliance with both the U.S. and Israel.
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:25 AM   #16
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I was really using turkey in the historic context of a nation that was able to secularise and modernise under Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. I wanted to just relate the importance of having strong leaders who believe in the good of the nation rather than the good of one particular ethno-nationalist group (don't remind me about the PKK or the brand new Kongra-Gel, I know Turkey is mainly Turkic and the state doesn't exactly have a great history with the Kurd's). When you try to create a democratic system where nearly all competing interests are incompatible you will allmost certainly get a collapse of the system. Turkey is a good model of how a free and democratic nation can be built in a relatively short ammount of time on solid democratic and secular principles. I understand that Iraq is a much more complex situation in terms of having very distinct groups and ethnicities fighting for control in a democratic system.

Ultimately if you take it all down you get the following; When you have leaders who want to create a viable nation that isnt bound by religion or fear you will get a much stronger political system. It is the common thread that sets liberal democracys apart from the autocracys and theocracys that deny fundamental rights and supress cultural openness. In this respect I believe that a comparison between a good Iraqi government and Turkey is is apt and not because of the nationality of the people.

In retrospect it may have been better to have written the last sentence with a few minor adjustments.

Give me a dozen real Iraqi Nationalists and a good charismatic leader and I will give you a progressive arab nation. Look at Turkey, It is possible to create a democratic nation in a relatively short ammount of time when you remove religon from the state. It must be done in Iraq for both international security and for Arab pride (When there is an entire belt of dictatorial and repressive regimes it is a shameful indictment on the society's as a whole, if progressive open nations can be forged it may well win the "war on terror" and will certainly be a great boost to the region and humanity as a whole)

In furthur retrospect I believe that consuming the better part of a bottle of Ouzo that afternoon may not have given me the boost in eloquence that I could have sworn I had in the evening.
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:42 PM   #17
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Normal It Only Fits

Hamas Leader: Bush Is Enemy of God, Islam

Quote:
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - The new Hamas leader branded President Bush on Sunday “the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam,” but stopped short of threatening to attack U.S. targets in retaliation for last week’s assassination by Israel of the Islamic militant group’s founder.

Driven underground by Israel’s vow to wipe out the remaining Hamas leadership by airstrikes, Abdel Aziz Rantisi emerged briefly for a fiery open-air speech before 5,000 people in the main courtyard of Gaza City’s Islamic University.

The actually quote is likely "Bush is enemy of Allah". But PC media translate this as "God".
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Old 03-28-2004, 09:29 PM   #18
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Re: It Only Fits

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Hamas Leader: Bush Is Enemy of God, Islam
The actually quote is likely "Bush is enemy of Allah". But PC media translate this as "God".
Even Arab Christians call God "Allah", so I'm not sure I would consider this PC. It's Arabic for "God" and has no direct connection with Islam.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:47 AM   #19
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Arab Christians I've met do not use the term "Allah" to distinguish beliefs between Christianity and Islam.
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Arab Christians I've met do not use the term "Allah" to distinguish beliefs between Christianity and Islam.
It's academic, I guess. Arab Christians I know personally don't use the word "Allah". They certainly don't use it in either Byzantine Melchite or Maronite church services. It's been claimed in books and such that they use this, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of this. My neighbors are Lebanese and Maronite, and for the record are registered Republicans. Their church is about to have a huge cultural festival with great food and stuff! Maybe it is PC, in which case I stand corrected.
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