hippy
ONE<br>love, blood, life
This is a question we've been discussing in the "Peace?" thread... but it doesn't belong there anymore so I'm dragging it out here. We've got a really good dialogue going so far... I'll repost for everyone's benefit:
And that's the discussion so far... anyone care to respond?
Originally posted by theSoulfulMofo
How can peace be a simple thing, when most humans are wired with survival-of-the-fittest instincts?
I mean, it's literally a dog-eat-dog world out there... economically (captialism), politically , socially (racism)... in the free world, we are taught to compete and earn our place in the world, even it means beating down the underdogs...
i don't know... am i making any sense?
Originally posted by hippy
Anthropologically, humans do not have instincts. Everything we have learned is a product of the society we live in. Unfortunately, the societies we have all grown up in are largely capitalist and have the "dog-eat-dog" mentality. Also unfortunately, that world view has infiltrated most human life. But if you look at societies like band societies, they don't engage in war to solve their problems. War developed when agricultural societies started to grow and become rooted in one spot. When people began to lose intimate contact with one another, they began to engage in the practice of war. And it has developed from there.
Originally posted by Sherry Darling[/i]
Humans don't have insincts? Tell that to anyone who's ever been attacked. Any mother who sees her kid in harm's way. Anyone who hasn't eaten in a week.
Originally posted by hippy
lol you should have heard my anthropology teacher trying to convice my class last semester that humans don't have instincts. But technically we don't. We aren't born with anything in us that says "as a mother, when my child is in trouble, I must protect it". That reaction in us is learned. We learn how to be mothers. We learn how to react when we are attacked. Humans have reflexes, such as breathing and muscle contractions when we touch something hot, etc. But everything else is learned.
The example my professor gave was with chimpanzees (who are the closest primate to humans). Suppose that a chimp is taken from it's mother as soon as it's born. It's raised by itself and has no one to learn from. No way to learn social patterns of behavior, no way to learn how to "mother", or how to take care of a child. Suppose that chimpanzee then has a baby. You will find fthat the chimpanzee has no ability to care for that infant chimp. She will have no knowledge of what to do with it or how to behave toward it, etc. Even when her baby is in mortal danger, she will be apathetic because she has never been taught that a mother *should* protect her baby. The same goes for if the chimp is put in contact with other chimpanzees. She will be lost as to how to deal with them as a consequence of never having learned that particular behavior. This analogy applies to humans in the same sense. Look at other cultures and you will find a different idea of "mother".
Originally posted by pub crawler
Okay, wait. Your Anthro professor teaches a radically different concept of behavior than did the professor from whom I took an anthro class 5 years ago at UCLA. Either that, or I totally misunderstood my professor -- or I'm totally misunderstanding your professor.
My professor instilled in us that all behavior is a product of both nature and nurture. "Instincts" are the same thing as "nature," are they not? I'm honestly curious about what you learned.
Edit: It's also possible that one or both of our professors were wrong.
Originally posted by hippy
First, I should say that the class that I took was a Cultural Anthropology class which focused mainly on the development and structure of human societies. This class is different from a regular anthropology class which would tend to focus on human evolution and such. Now that that's done, on to the other stuff!
According to the text that we used (Bates and Fratkin, Cultural Anthropology, 2003) and my particular professor, "nature" is simply the genes you are born with. This determines your physical and, to some extent, emotional indispositions. It takes the "nurture" (the environment in which you live) to express those characteristics. So, for example, some genes may be expressed in a certain in environment which may not be expressed in another. So, yes, behavior is a product of both nature and nurture. What I was trying to show in my previous post was that humans do not have "instincts," that is, programmed behavior to act a certain way in a certain situation. Women are not programmed to be mothers, that is a learned behavior. However, women are born with the capacity to become mothers. In the same manner, all men are capable of becoming the biological parent of a child, but that does not mean they automatically are born with the capability to be what our society calls a "father."
So to answer your question: Instincts are not nature. Those things we are taught to refer to as instincts are really reflexes. Our genes cannot tell us how to mother or father or take care of ourselves. Our genes can give us the ability to be able to do those things, but it is the behavior we learn from the moment we leave the womb that teaches us how to do the things necessary for life. And what we learn is determined by our culture.
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Survival is an instinct. Sex and sleep are instincts. We're created with them in order to stay alive. There is precedent for this in nature, too.
Originally posted by Elvis
Actually... survival in humans is not an instinct - its taught. Sleep is something that happens, no matter if you try to or not. Also.. from what I've read/heard ... sex with humans is not an instinct either, it's something we choose to do, and also do for pleasure.
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Mmmmmmmm.....you're aware of the amount of biological evidence to the contrary, aren't you? For example, sex feels good so we'll do...so that our species will survive.
And that's the discussion so far... anyone care to respond?