Inestimable Privilege

MrsSpringsteen · 01-03-2008, 07:50 AM

I have never heard of such a thing happening, didn't know that was legal. I can't believe the NJ Supreme Court will uphold that.

www.time.com

Monday, Dec. 07, 1970
Can Atheists Be Parents?

After six years of childless marriage, John and Cynthia Burke of Newark decided to adopt a baby boy through a state agency. Since the Burkes were young, scandal-free and solvent, they had no trouble with the New Jersey Bureau of Children's Services—until investigators came to the line on the application that asked for the couple's religious affiliation.

John Burke, an atheist, and his wife, a pantheist, had left the line blank. As a result, the bureau denied the Burkes' application. After the couple began court action, however, the bureau changed its regulations, and the couple was able to adopt a baby boy from the Children's Aid and Adoption Society in East Orange.

Last year the Burkes presented their adopted son, David, now 31, with a baby sister, Eleanor Katherine, now 17 months, whom they acquired from the same East Orange agency. Since the agency endorsed the adoption, the required final approval by a judge was expected to be pro forma. Instead, Superior Court Judge William Camarata raised the religious issue.

Inestimable Privilege. In an extraordinary decision, Judge Camarata denied the Burkes' right to the child because of their lack of belief in a Supreme Being. Despite the Burkes' "high moral and ethical standards," he said, the New Jersey state constitution declares that "no person shall be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience." Despite Eleanor Katherine's tender years, he continued, "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."

The Burkes are now living in Carterville, Ill., near Southern Illinois University, where John Burke has worked for the past year as a speech pathologist. Nevertheless, Judge Camarata ordered the parents to send David's sister back to the New Jersey adoption agency. Two weeks ago, aided by the American Civil Liberties Union, the Burkes appealed directly to the New Jersey Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case. If they fail in their appeal, Eleanor Katherine may have to leave the only family she has ever known and await adoption by another couple whose religious convictions satisfy the State of New Jersey.

BVS · 01-03-2008, 07:57 AM

What the fuck is wrong with this country?

Vincent Vega · 01-03-2008, 08:09 AM

Hail God!

And I still like to come to the US.

indra · 01-03-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Monday, Dec. 07, 1970

Was this story from 1970?

I also wonder about this bit:

Quote:

Last year the Burkes presented their adopted son, David, now 31, with a baby sister, Eleanor Katherine, now 17 months

How old was David when they adopted him?

MrsSpringsteen · 01-03-2008, 08:13 AM

oops, I never noticed the date. Maybe it was 1970

Hey it's still early in the morning

Now I have to go back to time.com and figure out what the hell is going on, I found the link on cnn.com

I Googled it and apparently the case did happen back then, I have no idea why it's on time.com now. Still I can't believe that happened back then, and I wonder what role religion plays in adoptions now. I would like to read what the NJ Supreme Court said.

BVS · 01-03-2008, 08:29 AM

I noticed the date but thought that was the date of the first adoption, and that the newest adoption was current, but now after my morning caffine realize that math still doesn't work.

Maybe it was some weird leap year-new year Y2kesque gliche.

indra · 01-03-2008, 08:30 AM

Of course I have an acquaintance who was told by a person appointed by the court to assess her fitness as a parent (it was a child custody case after a divorce) that Unitarian Universalist wasn't a "real" religion and she needed to find a less wacky church or it would work against her.

Lovely, isn't it?

MrsSpringsteen · 01-03-2008, 08:34 AM

Well Tom Cruise is a Scientologist and had no problem adopting two children (not that I know of, privately who knows). Perhaps megamoney trumps religion in that case, I don't know. I had no knowledge of this case, and the real scary thing is believing it could be a current case because I did before the date was pointed out.

Hinder · 01-03-2008, 11:51 AM

^ Megamoney /is/ a religion. Didn't you know that?

A_Wanderer · 01-04-2008, 06:04 PM

Statistically the "average" American parent would rather their daughter marry a gay man than an atheist.

INDY500 · 01-04-2008, 06:21 PM

OMG !! I just heard the Beatles are breaking up!

**Diemen** · 01-04-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Statistically the "average" American parent would rather their daughter marry a gay man than an atheist.

Where did that statistic come from?

A_Wanderer · 01-04-2008, 07:08 PM

It was a phone poll that rated peoples feeling towards various groups, atheists did worse than the gays.

Lila64 · 01-04-2008, 08:04 PM

So in this case, is the state of New Jersey have to approve of WHICH God you believe in, if any? Who's to say which "religions" are approved? Is there a list?

I like George Carlin's take on religion. You can read it here http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

DaveC · 01-05-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lila64

I like George Carlin's take on religion. You can read it here http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

01-03-2008, 07:50 AM	#1
MrsSpringsteen Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28,785 Local Time: 12:50 AM	Inestimable Privilege I have never heard of such a thing happening, didn't know that was legal. I can't believe the NJ Supreme Court will uphold that. www.time.com Monday, Dec. 07, 1970 Can Atheists Be Parents? After six years of childless marriage, John and Cynthia Burke of Newark decided to adopt a baby boy through a state agency. Since the Burkes were young, scandal-free and solvent, they had no trouble with the New Jersey Bureau of Children's Services—until investigators came to the line on the application that asked for the couple's religious affiliation. John Burke, an atheist, and his wife, a pantheist, had left the line blank. As a result, the bureau denied the Burkes' application. After the couple began court action, however, the bureau changed its regulations, and the couple was able to adopt a baby boy from the Children's Aid and Adoption Society in East Orange. Last year the Burkes presented their adopted son, David, now 31, with a baby sister, Eleanor Katherine, now 17 months, whom they acquired from the same East Orange agency. Since the agency endorsed the adoption, the required final approval by a judge was expected to be pro forma. Instead, Superior Court Judge William Camarata raised the religious issue. Inestimable Privilege. In an extraordinary decision, Judge Camarata denied the Burkes' right to the child because of their lack of belief in a Supreme Being. Despite the Burkes' "high moral and ethical standards," he said, the New Jersey state constitution declares that "no person shall be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience." Despite Eleanor Katherine's tender years, he continued, "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being." The Burkes are now living in Carterville, Ill., near Southern Illinois University, where John Burke has worked for the past year as a speech pathologist. Nevertheless, Judge Camarata ordered the parents to send David's sister back to the New Jersey adoption agency. Two weeks ago, aided by the American Civil Liberties Union, the Burkes appealed directly to the New Jersey Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case. If they fail in their appeal, Eleanor Katherine may have to leave the only family she has ever known and await adoption by another couple whose religious convictions satisfy the State of New Jersey. __________________

01-03-2008, 07:57 AM	#2
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 11:50 PM	What the fuck is wrong with this country? __________________

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01-03-2008, 08:09 AM	#3
Vincent Vega Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 6,750 Local Time: 06:50 AM	Hail God! And I still like to come to the US.

01-03-2008, 08:13 AM	#5
MrsSpringsteen Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28,785 Local Time: 12:50 AM	oops, I never noticed the date. Maybe it was 1970 Hey it's still early in the morning Now I have to go back to time.com and figure out what the hell is going on, I found the link on cnn.com I Googled it and apparently the case did happen back then, I have no idea why it's on time.com now. Still I can't believe that happened back then, and I wonder what role religion plays in adoptions now. I would like to read what the NJ Supreme Court said.

01-03-2008, 08:29 AM	#6
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 11:50 PM	I noticed the date but thought that was the date of the first adoption, and that the newest adoption was current, but now after my morning caffine realize that math still doesn't work. Maybe it was some weird leap year-new year Y2kesque gliche.

01-03-2008, 08:30 AM	#7
indra ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 12,689 Local Time: 12:50 AM	Of course I have an acquaintance who was told by a person appointed by the court to assess her fitness as a parent (it was a child custody case after a divorce) that Unitarian Universalist wasn't a "real" religion and she needed to find a less wacky church or it would work against her. Lovely, isn't it?

01-03-2008, 08:34 AM	#8
MrsSpringsteen Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28,785 Local Time: 12:50 AM	Well Tom Cruise is a Scientologist and had no problem adopting two children (not that I know of, privately who knows). Perhaps megamoney trumps religion in that case, I don't know. I had no knowledge of this case, and the real scary thing is believing it could be a current case because I did before the date was pointed out.

01-03-2008, 11:51 AM	#9
Hinder Acrobat Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 328 Local Time: 10:50 PM	^ Megamoney /is/ a religion. Didn't you know that?

01-04-2008, 06:04 PM	#10
A_Wanderer ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Wild West Posts: 12,518 Local Time: 02:50 PM	Statistically the "average" American parent would rather their daughter marry a gay man than an atheist.

01-04-2008, 06:21 PM	#11
INDY500 Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The American Resistance Posts: 4,754 Local Time: 10:50 PM	OMG !! I just heard the Beatles are breaking up!

01-04-2008, 07:08 PM	#13
A_Wanderer ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Wild West Posts: 12,518 Local Time: 02:50 PM	It was a phone poll that rated peoples feeling towards various groups, atheists did worse than the gays.

01-04-2008, 08:04 PM	#14
Lila64 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: ♥Set List Lane♥ Posts: 52,894 Local Time: 09:50 PM	So in this case, is the state of New Jersey have to approve of WHICH God you believe in, if any? Who's to say which "religions" are approved? Is there a list? I like George Carlin's take on religion. You can read it here http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm