I used to hate Bush... - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-29-2004, 10:26 PM   #1
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I used to hate Bush...

...but now after watching Kerry. I don't know. There's just something wrong about him.

Does he seem sincere in what he is doing? He keeps changing his mind about everything. He doesn't look genuine at all. It's like he truly doesn't care and is only trying to be president to fulfill his own agenda.

I used to hate Bush what with all the war and everything. I hate the fact that he made a brash decision that cost a lot of lives in no holds bar pissing contest with "terrorism".

Then I see Kerry. He's this sinister, dodgy, fickle character that just doesn't inspire trust. All he does is insult Bush. He never talks about what he wants to do or that he cares (frankly I don't think he doesn't.)

Thanks to Kerry, I'm even beginning to comprehend Bush about the war: he was in pressure, something had to be done.

Oh well I don't even get to vote because I'm not a US citizen. But if the guy that gets elected has the power to launch the rocket that will land in my backyard at least I should be able to rant about it - even if it's in a message board.

Love and Peace ...or else.
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Old 10-29-2004, 11:09 PM   #2
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You use your mind and everybody should applaud that.
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:21 AM   #3
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We ALL use our minds.

What I would like to know is: how representative of a democracy
does Honduras have?

It's hard for people sitting half across the world to really speak on other countries' issues unless they have had extensive experience living in that country so that they know what they're talking about firsthand.

Please, tell us about the candidates and the level of democracy in Honduras - that is what I would find interesting to hear you speak about.

I can make up my own mind about my country's election by myself.

LOVE AND PEACE....OR ELSE
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:35 AM   #4
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I think all of us at some point fall victim to vibe voting. At the beginning of the primaries Dean gave me a bad vibe too. Though I agreed with him lockstep, he just seemed like too much of a curmudgeon. But in the distorted media glare, vibes can be misleading, often taking voters away from the important issues at hand.

Just curious...what do you think Kerry keeps changing his mind on?
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:51 AM   #5
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I still despise Bush and all that his Fascist
admin. stands for.
There's a big difference between being
patrioticism and nationalism.
Amerika uber alles.....rise for the flag salute. You must obey us. Have a nice
day!
Not too crazy about Kerry, but will be voting for him.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:03 AM   #6
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The thing about Kerry is that he is a legislater and attorney. He has not been in a position of leadership, such as governor. It is easy for him to criticize. He seems to do that well, though he has no proven leadership experience himself. 4.5 months in a swift boat with a record he won't officially release really doesn't count. My experience in watching him in MA is that most people don't vote for him. They vote for the party. Labor elects him each time. He really hasn't done much of anything for our state. He has made many promises including alternative energy and keeping the shipyards open. The shipyards are closed and he is against the wind turbines off cape cod. The list goes on. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:19 AM   #7
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...also what do you think is specifically so fascist about the Bush administration? Give us some details. I don't think pursuing mass murderers would qualify. Less people will die this year prematurely in Iraq than any year that Saddam was in power. If your against the Patriot Act, then don't criticize anyone the next time there is a terrorist attack. What scare me is the thought that the rest of the world is as benevolent and tolerant as America and other western nations. It is not. They do not care about your free will or free speech. Convincing yourself that we can all just get along is a great ideal. In all of human history that has proven to be false. I don't mean to sound overly pessimistic, but there were once a great Greek and Roman civilizations and British and Portuguese conquerers, etc, etc. The world is getting smaller. Inevitably, there will be those who want freedom and those who either don't want it or aren't willing to do what is necessary to keep it.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:24 AM   #8
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boston01 reminds me a little of deadsox
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boston01
Less people will die this year prematurely in Iraq than any year that Saddam was in power.
do you have some sort of statistical analysis for that? i'd like to read them.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:32 AM   #10
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Sure review the numbers from Human Rights Watch regarding Iraq death totals...sorry I don't have the exact link, but you should find it with google easy enough.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:40 AM   #11
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liberal estimates through the first year after the Iraq invasion were 8-10K Iraqi deaths. Human Rights Watch estimated about 30K per year under Saddam. Tony Blair suggested earlier this year that 400K mass graves had already been found so that number may be higher. By comparison, there were about 16K murders in the US last year.
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Old 10-30-2004, 07:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
boston01 reminds me a little of deadsox
No no, dread was rational.

Now here's the thing I think about this -- Gore and Kerry are the same way. They don't always have the charisma to work a room well. Just the way it is. I was not a Clinton supporter -- I'll admit it -- but I miss him now. He was like Reagan. He had this rock-star charisma and made you feel like he was talking to you. I always remember Reagan hugging the families of the Challenger astronauts. I remember Clinton going somewhere and being able to comfort people the same way. Bush just seems fake, he doesn't know how to interact with people that are not blue bloods. I think Kerry is better at interaction with people but sometimes he just doesn't have the rock-star thing. I hope that once he becomes president, some of that extra personality will come out.
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Old 10-30-2004, 08:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
We ALL use our minds.

What I would like to know is: how representative of a democracy
does Honduras have?

It's hard for people sitting half across the world to really speak on other countries' issues unless they have had extensive experience living in that country so that they know what they're talking about firsthand.

Tons of people here aren't American and you've never had a problem w/ them before. Maybe b/c most of them don't like Bush either and that fits nicely into your agenda? I think that it's actually fairly easy for people from other countries to form a valid opinion about American politics. For one thing, they don't have to make a choice (vote) one way or the other so they have the liberty of understanding the issues from a much more objective position. I bet you would be pissed if someone told you you aren't allowed to have an opinion about Honduras, or say Africa, b/c you don't live there.
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boston01
liberal estimates through the first year after the Iraq invasion were 8-10K Iraqi deaths. Human Rights Watch estimated about 30K per year under Saddam. Tony Blair suggested earlier this year that 400K mass graves had already been found so that number may be higher. By comparison, there were about 16K murders in the US last year.
just to put some of this in perspective:

8-10k deaths leaves out the other 100k killed as a result the US invasion.

i'll assume that these 10k deaths are iraqi-iraqi violence since you compared them to the murder rate in the US.

10,000 deaths : appx. pop. 25,000,000 = 1:2500

16,000 deaths : appx. pop. 300,000,000 = 1:18750
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:26 AM   #15
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I see you left the death statistic for for Saddam's rule of of the equation. Also, you could figure the ratio of UN based on embargos during the 90s which would probably blow away all other statistics. I do not believe George Bush is the the best leader for the job at hand; however, i also do not believe Kerry is alruistic at all. Many of the arguments I see here are based on the rhetoric of people who either do not have the time or the energy to do the research. George Bush's record has been in the news for four plus years. Kerry's is recent and most people just do not know what he is. Some of the people who either don't like or don't care what I have to say seem to react on emotion only. Do yourself a favor and do some research. As you should for both candidates. I respect anyones decision who has done so. It just tends to make me slightly angry when people pull out one news story and preach it as the truth, especially when all the facts aren't known most of the time.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Tons of people here aren't American and you've never had a problem w/ them before. Maybe b/c most of them don't like Bush either and that fits nicely into your agenda? I think that it's actually fairly easy for people from other countries to form a valid opinion about American politics. For one thing, they don't have to make a choice (vote) one way or the other so they have the liberty of understanding the issues from a much more objective position. I bet you would be pissed if someone told you you aren't allowed to have an opinion about Honduras, or say Africa, b/c you don't live there.

Well said. Using her own statement as an example, Jamila should not have the right to voice an opinion about the problems in Africa.

I think its pretty sad actually that so many people outside of the US seem to be quite well versed in our politics and political system yet relatively few of us are interested or informed about politics outside of the US.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:50 AM   #17
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All I said was that after watching Kerry speak and just carry himself around bashing Bush all over the place he doesn't seem like a good man.

He seems like a man who takes the whole war (which no one was prepared for) as a reason to not vote for Bush.

He doesn't tell the people to vote for him. He keeps telling them to not vote for bush. And that is what I find deeply disturbing about him.

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Old 10-30-2004, 11:55 AM   #18
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And as for a democracy in Honduras. Hell, a government. Non-existant.

We have people and cliques that do their best to steal money from the government funds. They don't care about the country at all.

Minimum Wage is approx. $130 a month (I don't feel like doing the math). And people work their asses off for that.

But this thread isn't about Honduras. I just felt like answering Jamila.

Truth to be told, though, Jamila, the US has the power to bomb and/or invade whatever country they want. So perhaps the I should be able to at least say something as to who exactly will be the man in charge of that. .....
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
All I said was that after watching Kerry speak and just carry himself around bashing Bush all over the place he doesn't seem like a good man.


Kerry is a bit condenscending and sanctimonious
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Old 10-30-2004, 01:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boston01
I see you left the death statistic for for Saddam's rule of of the equation. Also, you could figure the ratio of UN based on embargos during the 90s which would probably blow away all other statistics. I do not believe George Bush is the the best leader for the job at hand; however, i also do not believe Kerry is alruistic at all. Many of the arguments I see here are based on the rhetoric of people who either do not have the time or the energy to do the research. George Bush's record has been in the news for four plus years. Kerry's is recent and most people just do not know what he is. Some of the people who either don't like or don't care what I have to say seem to react on emotion only. Do yourself a favor and do some research. As you should for both candidates. I respect anyones decision who has done so. It just tends to make me slightly angry when people pull out one news story and preach it as the truth, especially when all the facts aren't known most of the time.
i didn't include death's under saddam because they require no perspective, just as i left out deaths as a result of the american invasion. you'll notice my comparison is simply of the murder/death rates you provided. saying iraq has less murders than the US is pointless unless you look at it with respect to deaths per capita. my home town has less murders than nyc...no shit.

perhaps you should do yourself a favor and not make assumptions about people's opinions. you'd look a hell of a lot less pretentious.
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