"I Thought I Raised You Better than This" - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-16-2003, 09:26 PM   #1
love, blood, life
pax's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 08:49 PM
"I Thought I Raised You Better than This"

This might be the first thread ever that could be said to skirt the territories of both FYM and Zoo Confessionals.

I've been arguing with my mom a lot lately, which makes me sad all by itself because my mom and I have historically been pretty tight. What makes it worse, though, is that we've been venturing into the political realm and my mom and I don't see eye-to-eye on almost anything anymore.

It just happened tonight, although it was probably brewing for a few days (she caught me opening my mail from Amnesty and I had to explain to her that Amnesty is not in the business of trying to free serial killers from prison). I don't even remember how it started, but we got into this argument about Bush (again). She HATES that I don't like him. I'm not sure why. I don't trash the man personally, as you FYMers know; I just don't like the job he's doing. And it escalated into this discussion of politics and stuff, and I tried to change the subject but she wouldn't let me.

None of this would bother me if she didn't start asking me about things like freedom of speech and if I think people have the right to, say, burn the flag. And I had to say that while I would not personally burn a flag and I think it's a dumb thing to do, people do have the right to do it. And then she got all pissed and was saying that I was disrespecting veterans and that she raised me better than that. It didn't matter to her that I have NEVER burned a flag, have never attended a flag burning, I buy poppies on Memorial Day...whatever, she wasn't hearing it.

I guess maybe what I'm getting at is this: do any of you have beliefs very different from those of their parents? How do you handle it? Do you just not bring it up? (I'd try this tack but my family REALLY knows how to push my buttons.) And do any of your parents take it personally that you have different beliefs?

And I guess on some level I do want to know: *is* this disrespectful to my mom and my family somehow?


and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time

Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 07-16-2003, 09:49 PM   #2
love, blood, life
melon's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 07:49 PM
No..."disagreeing" with your parents is a far cry from "disrespecting" them. To be honest, I would say that the *opposite* is true; they are disrespecting *you* by clearly stereotyping your belief system with conservatism's narrow-minded view of liberalism. Do your parents read Ann Coulter books?

I think they're due for a clear shake back into reality, and I would be resolute with my beliefs. Then tell them that if they don't like it to stop bringing it up, and maybe start stereotyping conservatives in the same way to prove a point. After all, treating conservatives like they want to bring on an Iranian, theocratic democracy to the U.S. sounds pretty accurate to me.

Of course, I don't know your family, but I have always had more of an interesting family dynamic, and I'd do this myself to my own.

Overall, I guess I feel that you need to stand your ground, and, if need be, to start being as combatative as your mother.


melon is offline  
Old 07-16-2003, 10:08 PM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 12:49 AM
I think once things become combatative, people shut down or become more entrenched in their positions. In a subtle way, the arguement becomes more about the two of you than what either of you actually politically believe.

Unless you can find a time and a place where your parents would be receptive to an open discussion on political issues with out it becoming heated and personal, I would avoid discussions on these issues or find a quick exit if they do come up. Once the discussion becomes personal in some way to either side, rarely can anything be learned or gained.

I am talking about discussions of politics here and not other things.
STING2 is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 02:40 AM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Lilly's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: back and to the left
Posts: 8,523
Local Time: 06:49 PM
pax my love

in my family, we get together with cousins, aunts, uncles, and my grandpa every other sunday for dinners. and we'd all talk about politics - for as long as i can remember - though my grandpa and uncles have pretty conservative views, my mom, cousin and myself are more uhh "liberal."

we've always kept it cordial...even when we talked about clinton.

you should probably just tell her that everyone's opinions deserve respect....be a mod with your mom

(at least arbitrarily edit her sig)
Lilly is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 07:12 AM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
oliveu2cm's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Live from Boston
Posts: 8,334
Local Time: 08:49 PM
I know it's hard to go through disagreeing with your parents- especially when they can't accept your beliefs.

Over Easter my father and I had an argument/loud discussion about Bush, when he came on TV and I said I didn't trust him. My dad got mad (even though he's a democrat ) and wanted reasons- which I cited. Then my father asked for sources. I get all my sources online- from boston.com to salon.com etc. Well then I was completely discredited because "anyone can write anything online" and told that he knew people in mental institutions because of their beliefs in conspiracy theories (he used to work there). Um...

So later that week I emailed him sources (from the shiny, acceptable washington post & other papers like that) which backed up what I had been talking about.

My best, best friend in the whole world and I don't agree on politics. Her family is very republican (because a cousin of theirs works for bush administration. other than that it makes no sense, b/c these people are not rich, and my friend herself is a TEACHER and has seen cutbacks from Romney). If politics comes up (I deter the subject usually) we agree to shut up about it. I mean, she doesn't really know a lot about the subject and gets her info from her parents. The other day I even heard her say something about "another reason to hate the french" which totalllllly threw me off guard. I dread to think of the upcoming election...

It's something that's very hard to go through, especially when parents don't have any respect (indeed they cut you down) for your beliefs. Stay strong Pax. Stay calm, (ooh my family can push my buttons too lemme tell ya ) and hopefully soon they'll start to see you're an intelligent and grown up woman who has a right to question things & not believe what her parents do "just because."
oliveu2cm is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 09:38 AM   #6
New Yorker
sharky's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 08:49 PM
I say just at least make sure your parents respect your beliefs. they can disagree if they want but not go overboard. my parents are the same way to the point where I am no longer allowed to talk when I'm home visiting and watching Bill O'Reilly with them. If anything, tell your mom that she at least didn't raise a dummy and you can make logical decisions for yourself even if she disagrees.
sharky is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 09:54 AM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
80sU2isBest's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 07:49 PM
Actually, my 70 year old mother is in your situation with her 96 year old mother, believe it or not.

Whenever my mom goes to visit her mom (especially when my great uncle is there, also), my grandmother will start ragging on Republicans, especially Bush, and sing the praises of Clinton. Out of repect, my mom usually resists the urge to say anything. It's usually the "singing the praises of Clinton" that is the straw that breaks my mom's back. She'll usually say something about that, but not in a disrespectful or loud manner.
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 10:21 AM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 07:49 PM
pax, I completely sympathize with you. My parents and I have some very differing views when it comes to politics and it's something that has only developed over the last five years or so. Since we don't live close to each other and only see one another on average once a year for less than a week, I try very hard not to get into politics or even religion with them when I see them. But sometimes it does come up. So far I've just laid out the reaons for my beliefs and tried to be as coherent and polite as possible, but it's very painful to realize that the people who should be the closest to me could almost be on another planet in some respects.

I feel that if parents really did their job, they will have raised to you to be a thoughtful, intelligent and independent person. And if that means you follow your convictions and turn out differently than they...well in my view that should not be threatening. It means they did well raising you, not turning you into a mindless clone of themselves.
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 10:33 AM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
speedracer's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,604
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Originally posted by STING2
I think once things become combatative, people shut down or become more entrenched in their positions. In a subtle way, the arguement becomes more about the two of you than what either of you actually politically believe.

I'd say the statement "I thought I raised you better than this" is a not-particularly-subtle way to turn a political argument into a personal argument!

Good luck, paxetaurora.
speedracer is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 01:50 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
anitram's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 17,936
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Everyone in my family is either very leftist or apolitical.

My mother holds very leftist views, but she does not like to get involved in politics or political debates because it is her view that politics destroys and has done more harm than good. We live in a big house on a big property, and it is a corner lot in the centre of the city. When elections come around, candidates come here months in advance, scouting our lawn, wanting to put up signs and she refuses each and every time, telling them she is apolitical. Sometimes, I feel like that's just promoting the status quo, but I always respected their views, even when I really wanted to make a statement by putting up a sign advertising for a particular politician.
anitram is online now  
Old 07-17-2003, 02:10 PM   #11
love, blood, life
zonelistener's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: six convenient metro locations
Posts: 14,747
Local Time: 07:49 PM
I want to start with this:

My first vote I ever casted (first election after my 18th Birthday) was for my father. I am VERY proud of that.

But saying that, I also have to say, he completely tows (correct spelling of that?) the party line - and that bugs me. Even when the state had a pretty decent governor - he would bash her becuase she was from the "other" party. I had to remind him of all the good she was doing for the state - and then she was recruited away by Bush for his cabinet.
zonelistener is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 03:04 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,183
Local Time: 07:49 PM
Originally posted by melon
No..."disagreeing" with your parents is a far cry from "disrespecting" them. To be honest, I would say that the *opposite* is true; they are disrespecting *you* by clearly stereotyping your belief system with conservatism's narrow-minded view of liberalism. Do your parents read Ann Coulter books?

I can't say I know what you're going through, because I don't-my whole family pretty much shares the same beliefs (although I do remember a debate one time when my sister thought that swastikas and things like that should never be drawn or used again, and my parents and I were saying that those kinds of things are just symbols, nothing more, and you also have to look at them in the context they're used and so on and so forth). My whole family's very opinionated on the big issues, so there's no holding back on our views in my house. Hence why I'm so open to expressing my beliefs (and I agree with you on the issue of flag-burning, by the way).

I can sort of sympathize with you as far as friends go, though-I do have a friend that's rather religious, and while she isn't one of those who tries to convert everyone she sees, she and I have had disagreements about religion before. She also tends to support Bush somewhat, and one day we almost got into a good fight about Bush and how good he is as president and things like that.

But you are not disrespecting your mom. Not at all. Stick to your beliefs if that's how you truly feel. Your mom's just going to have to accept your beliefs. You guys can still have good discussions about your differing views, but she shouldn't make you feel horrible about feeling the way you do-you're not doing that to her, you're respecting her views, she should therefore return the favor.

I really hope you and your mom patch things up soon. A family should still be able to get along with each other regardless of whether or not they all believe the same things.

Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 10:09 PM   #13
Rock n' Roll Doggie
sue4u2's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: hatching some plot, scheming some scheme
Posts: 6,628
Local Time: 07:49 PM
I am in the unique positon of having an adult son (early 20's) who I have tried to raise to have his own opinions and to vote intelligently, who I didn't even have to prompt to sign up to vote in our district when he was 18. We have the best discussions because we don't agree on everything. We usually wind up hugging each other with the last word trying - to be said by each of us, "you'll understand one day, what I'm saying. However, it's not the same with my Dad. He's still right no matter what, and it's "now that's just the way it is". period. I stick to my opinions but I'd rather talk to my son. and I don't disrespect my Dad, I just change the subject, which is sad, but Mom is there with good political discussion's so, I'm really most fortunate. If you argue your point with conviction and nothing changes then there's nothing you can really. You can't change someone's opinion, but you have the ability to help them understand, sometimes not, where you stand. But always be prepared to be told you are wrong, that's just the nature of the beast, or argument that is.
sue4u2 is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 11:19 PM   #14
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,228
Local Time: 06:49 PM
You sound like a great parent. I give you props. I unfortunately (love him to death) grew up with a father much like yours. I just tend to avoid those types of conversations with him. Honestly I'm not sure if he really knows that part of me. It's a very unfortunate thing, because despite his absolute stubburned attitude he's a very loving father.
BVS is offline  
Old 07-17-2003, 11:48 PM   #15
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ILuvLarryMullen's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in the sunshine
Posts: 6,904
Local Time: 04:49 PM
I don't agree with my parents on a lot of things. They're fairly conservative and I'm pretty far left. I don't get into a lot of political discussions with them, esp my dad (i love him dearly but he doesn't have facts of any type to support his opinions. Once I asked him which political party he agreed with and he said "whichever is the opposite of Clinton's" ). My parents don't take it personally that my views are different from theirs or try to convince me of theirs. I think that they believe that I'm liberal because I'm young and that I'll grow out of it when I'm older (not going to happen ). My mom once called me a "closet liberal" and I thought that was pretty funny. I'm not ashamed of my liberalness and will tell anyone who asks me, I just don't speak up much in family discussion as I am outnumbered and don't think i'll change anyone's mind anyways.

My best friend on the other hand is very liberal and her parents are conservative. Her mom takes it very personally that she doesn't agree with her political views even though my friend is not disrespectful about it at all. She can't even let her know about the fact that she is a member of the Young Democrats at her college or she would be in big trouble. It sucks, I feel bad for her and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it .
ILuvLarryMullen is offline  
Old 07-18-2003, 08:25 AM   #16
love, blood, life
pax's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 08:49 PM
Thanks everyone for your advice and support. I think this has been a great discussion.

I tried to call my mom last night to mend fences, but she wasn't home...maybe over the weekend.
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time

Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 07-18-2003, 08:28 AM   #17
Klaus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 01:49 AM
I wish you all the best for the phonecall
Klaus is offline  
Old 07-19-2003, 02:04 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Bono's shades's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 07:49 PM

I know exactly how you feel. My parents and I don't see eye-to- eye politically either. It's not that much of a problem as far as my mom is concerned because she's not as hard-core into politics as my dad and she's not an argumentative person anyway, but my dad not only takes whatever Rush Limbaugh says as the gospel truth but he is very argumentative. I used to get into fights with him over politics, but over time I've learned to simply not bring up the subject - even if I'm riding in the car with him and he's got Rush or some other conservative talk show host on and I'm practically biting my tongue to stop myself from saying something sarcastic. I know he will never agree to my point of view, so what's the point of straining our relationship?

I hope your talk with your mom goes well. Good luck!

Bono's shades is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com