"I Just Pulled the Trigger"

[sulawesigirl4]

Published on Thursday, June 19, 2003 by the London Evening Standard

'I Just Pulled the Trigger'
by Bob Graham

At first glance they appear to be the archetypal Band Of Brothers of Hollywood myth, brave and honest men united in common purpose.

But a closer look at these American GIs, sweltering in the heat of an unwelcoming Iraq, reveals the glazed eyes and limp expressions of those who have witnessed a war they do not understand and have begun to resent. By their own admission these American soldiers have killed civilians without hesitation, shot wounded fighters and left others to die in agony.

What they told me, in a series of extraordinary interviews, will make uncomfortable reading for US and British politicians and senior military staff desperate to prevent the liberation of Iraq turning into a quagmire of Vietnam proportions, where the behavior of troops feeds the hatred of an occupied people.

Sergeant First Class John Meadows revealed the mindset that has led to hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians being killed alongside fighters deliberately dressed in civilian clothes. "You can't distinguish between who's trying to kill you and who's not," he said. "Like, the only way to get through s*** like that was to concentrate on getting through it by killing as many people as you can, people you know are trying to kill you. Killing them first and getting home."

These GIs, from Bravo Company of the 3/15th US Infantry Division, are caught in an impossible situation. More than 40 of their number have been killed by hostile forces since 1 May - when President Bush declared major military operations were over - and the number of hit-and-run attacks is on the increase. They face a resentful civilian population and, hiding among it, a number of guerrilla fighters still loyal to the old regime. A lone Iraqi sniper nicknamed The Hunter is believed to have claimed his sixth American victim this week in a suburb of Baghdad.

The man, said to be a former member of the Republican Guard Special Forces, has developed a cult status among some Iraqis. One Baghdad resident, Assad al Amari, said: "He is fighting for Iraq on his own. There will be many more Americans killed because they cannot stop The Hunter. He will be given the protection of people who will let him use their homes for his shooting."

In this hostile atmosphere the men of Bravo Company are asked to maintain order, yet at the same time win hearts and minds. It is not a dilemma they feel able to resolve. They spoke to me - dressed in uniforms they have worn for the past six weeks - at their base in Fallujah. Here US troops killed 18 demonstrators at a pro-Saddam rally soon after the war and now face local fighters bent on revenge.

Their attitude to these dangers is summed up by Specialist (Corporal) Michael Richardson, 22. "There was no dilemma when it came to shooting people who were not in uniform, I just pulled the trigger. It was up close and personal the whole time, there wasn't a big distance. If they were there, they were enemy, whether in uniform or not. Some were, some weren't."

Specialist Anthony Castillo added: "When there were civilians there we did the mission that had to be done. When they were there, they were at the wrong spot, so they were considered enemy." In one major battle - at the southern end of Baghdad at the intersection of the main highways - the soldiers estimate about 70 per cent of the enemy's 400-or-so fighters were dressed as civilians.

Sgt Meadows explained: "The fight lasted for about eight hours and they just kept on coming all day from everywhere, from all sides. They were all in plain clothes.

"We had dropped fliers a couple of days prior saying to people to get out of the area if they didn't want to fight, so basically anyone who was there was a combatant. If they were dumb enough to stand in front of tanks or drive a car

towards a tank, then they were there to fight. On that day it took away the dilemma of who to fire at, anyone who was there was a combatant."

Cpl Richardson added: "That day nothing went with the training. There were females fighting; there were some that, when they saw you f****** coming, they'd just drop their s*** and try to give up; and some guys were shot and they'd play dead, and when you'd go by they'd reach for their weapons. That day it was just f****** everything. When we face women or injured that try to grab their weapons, we just finish them off. You've gotta, no choice."

Such is their level of hatred they preferred to kill rather than merely injure. Sgt Meadows, 34, said: "The worst thing is to shoot one of them, then go help him." Sergeant Adrian Pedro Quinones, 26, chipped in: "In that situation you're angry, you're raging. They'd just been shooting at my men - they were putting my guys in a casket and eight feet under, that's what they were trying to do.

"And now, they're laying there and I have to help them, I have a responsibility to ensure my men help them." Cpl Richardson said: "S***, I didn't help any of them. I wouldn't help the f******. There were some you let die. And there were some you double-tapped."

He held out his hand as if firing a gun and clucked his tongue twice. He said: "Once you'd reached the objective, and once you'd shot them and you're moving through, anything there, you shoot again. You didn't want any prisoners of war. You hate them so bad while you're fighting, and you're so terrified, you can't really convey the feeling, but you don't want them to live."

These soldiers have faced fighters from other Arab countries. "It wasn't even Iraqis that we was killing, it was Syrians," said Sgt Meadows. "We spoke to some of the people and Saddam made a call for his Arab brothers for a holy war against us, and they said they came here to fight us. Whadda we ever do to them?"

Cpl Richardson intervened: "S***, that didn't really matter who they were. They wanted to fight us so they were the enemy. We had to take over Baghdad, period, it didn't matter who was in there."

The GIs spoke of shooting civilians at roadblocks. Sgt Meadows said: "When they used white flags we were told to stop them at 400 meters out and then strip them down naked then bring them through. Most obeyed the order. We knew about others who had problems with [Iraqis] carrying white flags and then opening up on our guys. We knew about every trick they were trying to do. Then they'd use cars to try and drive at us. They were men, women and children. That day we shot up a lot of cars.

"We'd shoot warning shots at them and they'd keep coming, so we'd kill them. We'd fire a warning shot over the top of them or on the road. When people criticize us killing civilians they don't know that a lot of these civilians were combatants, they really were . And they still are."

The men have been traumatized by their experiences. Cpl Richardson-said: "At night time you think about all the people you killed. It just never gets off your head, none of this stuff does. There's no chance to forget it, we're still here, we've been here so long. Most people leave after combat but we haven't."

Sgt Meadows said men under his command had been seeking help for severe depression: "They've already seen psychiatrists and the chain of command has got letters back saying 'these men need to be taken out of this situation'. But nothing's happened." Cpl Richardson added: "Some soldiers don't even f****** sleep at night. They sit up all f****** night long doing s*** to keep themselves busy - to keep their minds off this f****** stuff. It's the only way they can handle it. It's not so far from being crazy but it's their way of coping. There's one guy trying to build a little pool out the back, pointless stuff but it keeps him busy."

Sgt Meadows said: "For me, it's like snap-shot photos. Like pictures of maggots on tongues, babies with their heads on the ground, men with their heads halfway off and their eyes wide open and mouths wide open. I see it every day, every single day. The smells and the torsos burning, the entire route up to Baghdad, from 20 March to 7 April, nothing but burned bodies."

Specialist Bryan Barnhart, 21, joined in: "I also got the images like snapshots in my head. There are bodies that we saw when we went back to secure a place we'd taken. The bodies were still there and they'd been baking in the sun. Their bodies were bloated three times the size."

Sgt Quinones explained: "There are psychiatrists who are trying to sort out their problems but they say it's because of long combat environment. They know we need to be taken away from that environment." But the group's tour of duty has been extended and the men have been forced to remain as peacekeepers. Cpl Richardson said: "Now we're in this peacekeeping, we're always firing off a warning shot at people that don't wanna listen to you. You make up the rules as you go along.

"Like, in Fallujah we get rocks thrown at us by kids. You wanna turn round and shoot one of the little f*****s but you know you can't do that. Their parents know if they came out and threw rocks we'd shoot them. So that's why they send the kids out." Sgt Meadows said: "Can you imagine being a soldier and being told 'you're fighting a war, then when you finish you can go home'.

"You go and fight that war, and you win decisively, but now you have to stay and stabilize the situation. We are having to go from a full warfighting mindset to a peacekeeping mindset overnight. Right after shooting at people who were trying to kill you, you now have to help them."

The anger towards their own senior officers is obvious. Cpl Richardson said: "We weren't trained for this stuff now. It makes you resentful they're holding us on here. It pisses everyone off, we were told once the war was over we'd leave when our replacements get here. Well, our replacements got here and we're still here."

Specialist Castillo said: "We're more angry at the generals who are making these decisions and who never hit the ground, and who don't get shot at or have to look at the bloody bodies and the burnt-out bodies, and the dead babies and all that kinda stuff." Sgt Quinones added: "Most of these soldiers are in their early twenties and late teens. They've seen, in less than a month, more than any man should see in a whole lifetime. It's time for us to go home."

On whether the war was one worth fighting, Sgt Meadows said: "I don't care about Iraq one way or the other. I couldn't care less. [Saddam] could still be in power and, to me, it wasn't worth leaving my family for; for getting shot at and almost dying two or three times, there's nothing worth that to me." Even though no Iraqis were involved, and there is no proof Saddam was behind it, the attack on the World Trade Center provides Cpl Richardson and many others with the justification for invading Iraq.

"There's a picture of the World Trade Center hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my Kevlar [flak jacket]. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."

 

[ouizy]

to this thread.

 

[80sU2isBest]

ouizy, my sentiments exactly.

I have replies to many specific portions of the article, and I will reply if someone wants me to, but for now I'll just say that this article's only purpose, it seems, is to turn the world against GIs for doing their jobs. I didn't see anything in that article that would make me think GIs were purposefully killing innocents. But gee whiz, the writer sure tried to twist it taht way.

 

[deep]

ouizy and 80s,
You can vote thumbs down on any thing that is not positive about our involvement in Iraq.

But, five years from now I believe we will all be looking back and asking how did things get so messed up.

This article below shows how out of touch the occupying forces are with geo-politic reality.

Iraqis Voice Fear of Signing Away Their Identity

Civil employees must declare in writing to obey the orders of the U.S. administration.

By Michael Slackman
Times Staff Writer

June 18, 2003

HILLAH, Iraq ? After all that has happened in Iraq ? the bombing, the fall of the government, the disruption of services, the looting, the crime and foreign troops in the streets ? the latest affront to many Iraqis is one sentence in one document. All citizens who work for the government are required to sign a document that states, "I will obey the laws of Iraq and all proclamations, orders and instructions of the Coalition Provisional Authority."

In an Islamic society where faith and state are intertwined, many fear this provision is designed to undermine their religion.

Hundreds of residents of this city about an hour's drive southeast of Baghdad took their concerns to the streets Monday in a peaceful demonstration, and their leaders are threatening further protests ? even a call for a nationwide strike ? if the document is not amended. The U.S.-led administration has refused.

"We are afraid that this is paving the way in order for the Americans to abolish our Iraqi and Islamic identity," said Said Adnan Unaibi, who serves as a local representative for one of the two main schools of Shiite Muslim thinking in Iraq. "This represents a provocation of the people."

The Coalition Provisional Authority, as the U.S.-led administration is known, is moving aggressively to assert itself as the sole legal authority in Iraq and to rub out any remnants of the former Baath Party regime. It has drawn a line in the sand, and in order for Iraqis to have a role in the running of their country, they must agree to the conditions laid down by civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer III.

One of those involves signing a form that is primarily a denunciation of the now-outlawed Baath Party, which Saddam Hussein relied on as one of his pillars of power. Tucked into the form is the sentence that has infuriated so many Iraqis, not just in this city near the ancient ruins of Babylon but also in Baghdad.

Iraqis want someone to be in charge, but many also chafe at the idea that they have become wards of the United States. That conflict creates a problem for the Americans as they try to enforce rules, restore security and create a normal rhythm of life in a country that they have concluded is not yet ready to run itself.

"They are quite capable intellectually," said Lt. Col. P.J. Dermer, who is working with the civil administration to develop grass-roots democratic practices in Baghdad. "The assets are there. The mentality doesn't exist. They need us. They know it's up to us to walk them through this."

Many Iraqis don't see it that way.

Ali Hussein Ali is a pathologist in Hillah. He was finally going to receive his pay this month when the person giving out the cash asked that he sign the denunciation form. Shiite clerics in the south have issued fatwas, or religious edicts, instructing that the forms not be signed. Ali wanted his money, and he wanted his job, but he also wanted to be true to his faith.

So he penciled in his own addendum: "But it should not contradict Islamic law."

"We will cooperate with an Iraqi government," he said. "They should not try to control our principles."

Ali works in the 17th of July Health Center, a rundown clinic in a walk-up near the center of town. A few doctors, a nurse and a pharmacist work there, although they are short on medicine and patients. They are not short on hostility at their circumstances.

"According to what the U.S. government said, this was a liberation," said Dr. Hamid Naimer, 41, the director of the clinic. "Now that they say American law should be implemented, it means this is an occupation. They didn't say anything about Iraqi law. This is a full occupation."

The south of Iraq is primarily populated by Shiites, a branch of Islam that accounts for more than half the population of Iraq. Hussein, a Sunni, vested power in his religious brethren and oppressed the Shiite majority.

While U.S. troops are being shot at now in Sunni communities in central Iraq, the Marines who patrol this city say almost everything is under control here. One officer said they have not been the targets of any planned attacks.

That has allowed the Marines and the Army unit here to focus on nation-building, rehabilitating infrastructure, giving out gasoline and offering cash gifts of $40 a month to pensioners. It also has meant paying salaries for all 38,000 government employees, a mammoth task.

But the efforts have been at least partially undermined by blanket decisions that have come out of the civil administration. The two major problems arise from the decision to dissolve the Iraqi military, which was the largest employer in the country, and the inclusion of the one sentence in the denunciation form, according to Marines, who have been providing security in the area.

"It's a real issue," Lt. Ernest Adams of the 1st Battalion, 4th Regiment Marines, said of the document. "We are here for the benefit of the Iraqi people. They are afraid we will take their religion away. That's why we are here. To protect them."

Some of the Americans here said they were taken aback by the severe reaction to the form. This week, for example, many members of the faculty at Hillah University refused to sign the form, one official said. They were paid anyway, but the conflict has not been resolved.

"From my personal perspective, it's not a big deal," Adams said. "We want to get them paid. But it's very important to the Iraqi people."

After the protest Monday, several community leaders met with top military officials in the city and asked for the inclusion of a short clause in the document, something along the lines of "in the interest of the Iraqi people." The request was passed up the line to Bremer's office.

In the past, Bremer's staff has refused to make any changes, and it appears likely that position will remain the same, according to civil administration spokesman Stewart Upton.

"Up to this point, we've told them straight up there will be no deviation from the form," Upton said.

There is a feeling among some administrators, he said, that the issue is simply being used by those who want to cause conflict.

That may not be true, but clerics such as Unaibi are using the clause in the document to promote the idea that the U.S. is implementing a plan to wipe out Iraq's Islamic identity.

"If they are not responsive to our demands, there will be a strike and demonstration in Hillah," he said. "If that doesn't work, we will call on all Iraqis to demonstrate. I think we have the capability to do that."

 

[80sU2isBest]

ouizy and 80s,
You can vote thumbs down on any thing that is not positive about our involvement in Iraq.

Just like you never have anything good to say about it or the current administration. Sorry, Deep, but you're not exactly the poster boy for objectivity with anything having to do with Bush.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'm sorry if you were under the impression that journalism is intended to only cover the positive aspects of any given situation. If anything I would have thought that the fact that the interviewed soldiers were quoted at length and in their own words would at least be worth thinking about and taking seriously.

 

[80sU2isBest]

sula, what I am saying is that the "journalist" inserted his own biased opinion into the article, and that his biased opinion does not in fact reflect the truth of what the soldiers actually said. He interjects his own interpretation throwing about phrases like "hate", when in fact, the soldiers aren't actually saying they kill the enemy ebcasue they hate them...time after time in this article, they state that they kill the enemy so that the enemy will not kill them. It's called survival, and I think that until we have been in this situation, in a war in which we are faced with two options, (1)Kill or (2)Be killed, we cannot know what they are going through, and can't judge their hearts. We certainly can't say they are fueled by hate, as this "journalist" does.

 

[Dreadsox]

sula, what I am saying is that the "journalist" inserted his own biased opinion into the article, and that his biased opinion does not in fact reflect the truth of what the soldiers actually said. He interjects his own interpretation throwing about phrases like "hate", when in fact, the soldiers aren't actually saying they kill the enemy ebcasue they hate them...time after time in this article, they state that they kill the enemy so that the enemy will not kill them. It's called survival, and I think that until we have been in this situation, in a war in which we are faced with two options, (1)Kill or (2)Be killed, we cannot know what they are going through, and can't judge their hearts. We certainly can't say they are fueled by hate, as this "journalist" does.

I went through and read the quotes only. Many times the author does intergect his own personal interpretation into the the article.
REading the quotes by themselves is quite saddening, however, they are fighting for their survival. I am not sure how much help I would want to give someone who violated the rules of engagement by dressing up as a civilian, pretending to surrender, playing dead, ect...ect...

As to incidents of the author overstepping his reporting, is the quotes that he saved for the end. I wonder how long he searched to find a soldier who had a picture of the trade center. Yes, there may very well be many who have the picture with them. He, the author makes a tremendous leap with this statement Even though no Iraqis were involved, and there is no proof Saddam was behind it, the attack on the World Trade Center provides Cpl Richardson and many others with the justification for invading Iraq. He quotes one person and says many.

I agree with the soldier in principle. 9/11 has changed the way we must conduct our foreign policy. Even though Iraq was not repsonsible for 9/11, our policy in the Middle East has been shaped by Iraq for 12 years. It ultimately did lead to 9/11. Now we can begin to move out of Saudi Arabia.

 

[verte76]

Let me just say that a few of the things that the U.S. administration is doing in Iraq make me nervous. An Iraqi on the 4iraqis forum (a discussion board for Iraqis) was complaining that a reading from the Koran had been censored on a TV station in Baghdad, apparently on orders from a U.S. authority. At least that's how he understood it. He was upset about this and told the Americans on the list that Iraqi parents are concerned because some of their kids are on drugs and stuff, thus their concern about their kids' religious training. It's true that in an Islamic country, certainly in Iraq, religion and politics are intertwined. We don't want to give them the impression that we are trying to rip off their religion. I don't know, if someone wearing a military uniform took my picture of the Pope or my rosary, I might get paranoid myself. I think our government needs to be careful about some of this stuff. They are human and we can expect them to screw up at least once. But screwing up in some areas can be awfully expensive, and I'm not just talking about $$ stuff.

 

[Scarletwine]

Just like you never have anything good to say about it or the current administration. Sorry, Deep, but you're not exactly the poster boy for objectivity with anything having to do with Bush.

Let's not throw barbs at each other. You never have a bad word to say about the admin. regardless of their actions.

In trying to end Vietnam, the soldier's thoughts, interviews, and personal imagery from the field became more readily available to the public , & the subsquescent movies.
What a flashback for me.

Don't discount the soldiers feelings, they are real whether you agree or not. I can't imagine trying to kill people and then trying to save them.

p.s. LACK OF PLANNING FOR POST WAR

 

[80sU2isBest]

Scarletwine, read this thread from the beginning, and you'll see that the reason I said that to Deep was because he said it to me first. If you're going to say "lets' not throw barbs", quote the person who started the "barb throwing", not theperson who responded. And what's funny about that is that right after you tell me not to throw barbs, you throw one yourself. And you know what, I could say the same thing to you - you've never had one good thing to say about Bush and company, so you're not exactly objective yourself.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

fact 1: objectivity is a myth

fact 2: regardless of one's views on the reasons for going to war, the above comments by servicepeople should disturb you.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

80s, you seem to believe a person who has been critical of the Bush administration should automatically have their comments disregarded as they are "biased." By the same standard, I could reject everything said by a pro-war individual on the grounds that they are biased. I could reject everything Tony Blair says because he's biased. I could reject everything George Bush says because he's biased. EVERYONE is biased. We all have our own experience, we all have our own interests, we all look at the same evidence and reach different conclusions. Dismissing someone's comments about the very disturbing article about simply because they have been critical of Bush in the past seems unwise for these reasons.

 

[Klaus]

objectivity isn't a myth, it's an ideal - we should try to come as close as possible to objectivity if we want to learn something while we speak to eachother and not just "talk just that something is said"

Klaus

 

[sulawesigirl4]

of course we want to be as objective as possible, but the idea that one can step outside one's own prejudices and preconceptions is implausible and a holdover from modernism. Everyone has a worldview. Pure scientific objectivity is not possible and never has been. We used to like to think it was attainable tho. Thus my statement that it's a myth.

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s, you seem to believe a person who has been critical of the Bush administration should automatically have their comments disregarded as they are "biased."

I never made such a claim at all. The ONLY reason I brought up Deep's lack of objectivity is because HE SAID IT FIRST ABOUT OUIZY AND MYSELF. Didn't anybody read his post before they read mine? What do I have to do - rent a billboard? Good grief, I think I just stepped into the Twilight Zone or something. This is friggin' ridiculous. I realize that it's more fun to jump down a vocal conservative's throat, but come on, how can you just totally ignore that I wasn't the one who started the "objectivity" business?

 

[80sU2isBest]

fact 2: regardless of one's views on the reasons for going to war, the above comments by servicepeople should disturb you.

I've already stated my thoughts on what the service people said, but I'll say it again:

This journalist has taken comments that were obviously about self-protection and survival and represented them as if they were hateful statements about killing everyone in sight. I find that appalling.

 

[Scarletwine]

If you're going to say "lets' not throw barbs", quote the person who started the "barb throwing", not theperson who responded. And what's funny about that is that right after you tell me not to throw barbs, you throw one yourself.

Quite right! My apologies.

I'm not unbiased, but I do feel those comments are legitimate. They aren't trained to be policemen. And as I said, I can't imagine going from killing Iraqi's to protecting them.

I'm sure it's hard to turn-off the war mentality and I'm sure some soldiers do feel like killing everyone in sight after seeing their comrades hurt or killed. Soldiers psyching themselves up to hate the enemy as a people is well documented.

 

[STING2]

Scarletwine,


"They aren't trained to be policemen. And as I said, I can't imagine going from killing Iraqi's to protecting them."

First the objective of the US military is to destroy the ability of the enemy to fight, not simply killing individual soldiers. The US military gave medical attention to thousands of Iraqi soldiers wounded in battle, saving an unknown number of Iraqi soldiers lives.

There has never been a military force in history more concerned with preventing the deaths of civilians than todays US military. There has also never been a military force more dedicated to ending major hostilities as soon as possible once they begin there by saving not only US military lives but also Iraqi civilian and Iraqi military lives. The Defeat of all major Iraqi Combat units in under 4 weeks is a perfect example of this.

Not all soldiers are trained to be Policemen in the pure sence, but this idea of them as blood thirsty robots is simply incorrect. They are professionals, and are well trained to handle any hostile situation they encounter. In addition for more extensive and investigative work that may be required, the Military's MP(Military Police branches) are the best in the world. Many of the police currently walking the streets of South Chicago or New York City are prior MPs from the US military.

"Soldiers psyching themselves up to hate the enemy as a people is well documented."

Thats utter rubish except for individuals who may independently engage in such a useless activity. From a military perspective, the opposite is usually true. Most soldiers in today's military learn and respect a potential military adversary. It is an important part of being able to defeat another military, understanding its strenths and weaknesses.

 

[brettig]

This journalist has taken comments that were obviously about self-protection and survival and represented them as if they were hateful statements about killing everyone in sight.

Don't you find it more appalling that soldiers are conditioned to rationalise it? Wanting to shoot kids? Doesn't that alarm you at all? Whether they did it or not is not the point. Alot of the comments are very Vietnamesque in the whole 'the only solution is to kill em all' logic these soldiers are left with after being gutted of their sense of decency by military training and rationalisation.

Even as the war was in progress I remember reading one NCO say something to the effect that 'I really wish we didn't have the Geneva convention or any of that stuff, it would just make this alot easier.'

I understand that soldiers must be capable of pulling the trigger but that shouldn't mean they must repress their humanity.

Its a lengthy feature story, and over that length its impossible for a journalist not to shape it in some way. If I'm honest I'll say I think the writer overdid it, since no embellishment is necessary given the sort of quotes he got, I think they speak loudly enough as it is. Of course if you don't want to listen I can't make you...

 

[STING2]

brettig,

"Don't you find it more appalling that soldiers are conditioned to rationalise it? Wanting to shoot kids? Doesn't that alarm you at all? Whether they did it or not is not the point. Alot of the comments are very Vietnamesque in the whole 'the only solution is to kill em all' logic these soldiers are left with after being gutted of their sense of decency by military training and rationalisation."

I'm sorry, but I don't think you understand military training. It does not gut you of your sense of decency, if any thing it improves and reinforces it. As far as the comments, did you ever wonder what it would be like if everyone was recorded during the most intense and difficult points of their life? I wonder what one might let slip out of their mouth if they had not slept for days, were hungery, suited up in 115 degree heat and constantly being shot at. Saying something at a particular point, especially perhaps being misquoted or having the quote being taken out of context, is not as nearly important as ones actions.

 

[brettig]

mmm so they don't brutalise in boot camp anymore? Its also quite unreasonable to suggest that every time you hear something you don't like that the journalist has misquoted or taken something out of context. Journalists are constantly dealing with people who ARE facing the most stressful time in their lives. Court cases, crime, controversy. Just because this is war doesn't mean soldiers get a free pass to say (or do!) whatever they want. Just imagine if, I dunno, some judge was quoted as saying he felt like killing a defendant. Not good.

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

well said brettig. its madness.

 

[STING2]

brettig,

mmm so they don't brutalise in boot camp anymore? Nope, at least not under your definition. As far as the journalist taking things out of context, reporting one thing and not another, and mis-qouting things, it may not happen all the time, but it happens incredibly often. To often, journalist sound so uninformed and unintelligent when it comes to reporting about military issues and events. Not all journalist though.

"Just because this is war doesn't mean soldiers get a free pass to say (or do!) whatever they want."

Soldiers understand that they don't get a free pass to do anything they want in war. But were talking about "words" not "actions". They understand the value of "freedom of speach", their in part defending it with their lives, while the journalist profits from it.

 

[Rono]

brettig,



Soldiers understand that they don't get a free pass to do anything they want in war. But were talking about "words" not "actions". They understand the value of "freedom of speach", their in part defending it with their lives, while the journalist profits from it.

Most of the time the soldiers are telling, i can say anything without the permision of my officer,...

Soldiers and freedom of speach,...

 

[STING2]

Rono,

"Most of the time the soldiers are telling, i can say anything without the permision of my officer,..."

"Soldiers and freedom of speach,..."

Thats for operational security reasons. But soldiers will often express how they feel and what they think to their officers given the proper speach, context, and forum. Communication between all ranks and branches on just about everything is key, to a well functioning military unit.

 

[Rono]

Rono,

"Most of the time the soldiers are telling, i can say anything without the permision of my officer,..."

"Soldiers and freedom of speach,..."

Thats for operational security reasons. But soldiers will often express how they feel and what they think to their officers given the proper speach, context, and forum. Communication between all ranks and branches on just about everything is key, to a well functioning military unit.

I do not mean tactical information,....

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

nice sig, rono. why not make the entire world red white and blue...it pretty much already is.

 

[Rono]

nice sig, rono. why not make the entire world red white and blue...it pretty much already is.

I do not want to destroy the illusions of freedom that the rest of the world have.


Read you,....