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Old 03-17-2002, 01:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge:
Quote:
Originally posted by tiny dancer:
I'm sorry but I don't have much respect for someone who puts poor and sick people down.
Just wondering, you are reffering to Rush?
Why, yes I am.
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Old 03-17-2002, 03:26 AM   #22
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Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Rush is a joke, he's never done a fucking thing for anyone or anything but himself. His days are numbered, Bill O'Reilly will bury him when it's all said and done.
Y'know, his days were supposed to be numbered the first time Clinton was elected... nearly 10 years ago.

Funny, that.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Rush is a complete moron. If he epitomizes conservatism, with his "I know everything, but really talking out of my ass" attitude, then I really feel sorry for conservatives. They really could find a better poster boy.

Melon
(Remember when I called Michael Moore an idiot? Remember the flack I received for that? Melon just called Rush "a complete moron". Where's the outrage here?)

Granted, Rush's confidence rubs a lot of people the wrong way. But the reason his ideas are in agreement with so many conservatives is THE IDEAS, not the attitude (which, honestly, is more entertainment than anything else).

IDEAS. What a novel concept.

Besides, if you think there is a different correct side of an issue (and Rush does), if you think you're ON the right side (and Rush does), and if you think you can thus defend your position (and Rush does), why NOT be confident in your beliefs?

On the specific issue at hand (Rush's take on Bono), one must recall two things:

First, in the Eighties, Bono got *dangerously* near to a position recently held by Zach de la Rocha of Rage Against the Machine and Michael Moore: not JUST criticism of specific American policies, but criticism because America is America.

(You can see this criticism from a LOT of Europeans. If some country's in trouble and we help out, we're "imperialists"; if we don't we're "heartless".)

Second, if ANY OTHER CELEBRITY were doing this, we'd ALL be skeptical, and rightfully so.

The bottom line is that the burden is on Bono to demonstrate that he knows what he's talking about. I think he's demonstrated that enough, especially considering the support from such people as Phil Gramm and President Bush. But, as a U2 fan, I'm more fully aware of what Bono's been up to. If/when Rush gets both sides of the issue (which appears to be Monday), THEN let's see if he continues to throw around baseless attacks, or - if he does continue to criticize, whether his reasons are more justified.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 03-16-2002).]
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Old 03-17-2002, 03:46 AM   #23
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Tiny Dancer, any specific reason you think that?
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Old 03-17-2002, 03:48 AM   #24
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Originally posted by tiny dancer:
Why, yes I am.
Okay, I was just wondering because I mentioned Michael Reagan and Bill Maher in the post above yours so I wasn't sure whom you were reffering too

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Old 03-17-2002, 03:58 AM   #25
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Originally posted by z edge:
I'll tell you a GOOD radio guy who is conservative yet not as harsh as Rush and pretty reasonable: Michael Reagan, adopted son of Ronald Reagan. He has a great radio show that comes on in the evenings, You all should check him out.


I checked out his show a few times when the talk radio station opened...but they shortly replaced him with "entertainment" talk shows on level with Jerry Springer and then Michael Savage, whom I also generally don't like (but at least he displays a modicum of intelligence, unlike the shows he replaced). They've also recently added Laura Ingraham, and she is rather cool (and pretty funny). She also, BTW, loves U2, I think. It seems that 90% of her "bumper music" is U2, and later, when I checked out her site, she has a pic of her and Bono. For awhile she did this little "soap opera" about OBL that she deemed "As The Cave Turns".


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Old 03-17-2002, 03:59 AM   #26
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Rush on liberals (emphasis mine):

"On Wednesday, I took a call from a self-described California liberal named Bob. He was a great guy, and as he went to great pains to explain, he never once called me names, which set him apart from 99% of the liberals who call the program. I mean, I put liberals and others who disagree with me at the front of the caller rotation. So why waste this big showbiz break with name calling? If we conservatives are so easy to defeat, then challenge on the issues."

Liberals on Rush (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Rush is a joke, he's never done a fucking thing for anyone or anything but himself. His days are numbered, Bill O'Reilly will bury him when it's all said and done.
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Rush is a complete moron. If he epitomizes conservatism, with his "I know everything, but really talking out of my ass" attitude, then I really feel sorry for conservatives. They really could find a better poster boy.
Quote:
Originally posted by U2live:
Rush Limbaugh just regrets he wasn't here during WW2 so he could have served the Fuherer directly.
On behalf of Mr. Limbaugh...

SEE, I TOLD YOU SO.

Now, what I want to know is this: where is the outrage? God forbid I call Michael Moore an idiot, because I wouldn't want to offend the tender ears of the politically correct.

But where are those defenders of civility and tolerance NOW?

For a moment, look past the first two comments:

U2live, an apparent fan of the tolerant and spiritually minded U2, just called Rush Limbaugh a Nazi.

WHERE'S THE FUCKING OUTRAGE?

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 03-17-2002).]
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Old 03-17-2002, 04:03 AM   #27
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Sorry to get off topic a bit, but who is Michael Moore, and why is he "an idiot"? Thanks

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Old 03-17-2002, 04:36 AM   #28
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Someone ever had a ton of respect for Rush Limbaugh in the first place?
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Old 03-17-2002, 04:39 AM   #29
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Lol...good one. I personally have No respect for him in his role. I don't know the man personally...and I suspect Rush is possibly a character he plays...but 99 percent of the opinions he spews frankly sicken me...
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Old 03-17-2002, 04:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2LA:
Someone ever had a ton of respect for Rush Limbaugh in the first place?
I would be willing to bet that there are quite a few Democrats that just love him! WHY? Because he always went after Clinton for 8 years while letting the DICK Gepharts of the world go virtually unnoticed

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Old 03-17-2002, 08:57 AM   #31
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Angell:

Moore is an extremist liberal of the first order. He is famous for one reason only: creating the cult favorite "Roger & Me", a documentary where Moore violated private property laws and harassed corporate executives.

What's lesser known about Moore is that he sued another guy who harassed him in the same way. He also directed a couple music videos (mostly for Rage Against the Machine) and occasionally writes books that next to no one reads.

He's famous on this forum for being one of the few semi-famous Americans to blame 9/11 on America itself, mourn the fact that NY and DC weren't even geographic areas that voted for Bush, and criticize the possibility of a military response against the terrorist organization that went out of their way to kill as many American civilians as possible.

In a reaction that was only surprising at the time, many Forum members praised Moore for speaking "the truth" about Big, Bad, Evil America.

And, ultimately, Moore genuinely IS an idiot.

U2LA:

Fifteen or twenty million weekly listeners probably have some amount of respect for the man, not to mention that he stands beside William F. Buckley as a standard-bearer of the conservative movement.

That said, really witty comment.

I'm laughing hysterically.

Ha.

Ha.

popsadie:

I actually don't believe you when you say "99 percent of the opinions he spews frankly sicken me."

Really? Okay, then. Name five of those opinions that sicken you.

z edge:

It's clear to me that you didn't listen to Rush during those years, because Rush nailed other Democrats for their support of Clinton, basically, for giving away their principles to defend a man who lied to a Federal Court.

If you have anything substantive to add to this debate, I'd welcome it.


I still wonder, are any of you open-minded enough to criticize those on your side of the issue when they go too far? When they wrongly and foolishly call Limbaugh a Nazi?

Or are any of you brave enough to defend the accusation?

Or at least brave enough to recognize it?
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Old 03-17-2002, 09:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by tiny dancer:
I'm sorry but I don't have much respect for someone who puts poor and sick people down.
tiny dancer, what makes you think Rush Limbaugh does that?

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Old 03-17-2002, 09:27 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
Rush himself was congratulating a liberal caller who called his show last week on the fact that he didn't call names... The reason I find this funny is because Rush has said himself that it takes the average liberal '30 Seconds' to Launch into Name Calling Coniptions against him.
Join the club, Rush. Funny how almost all of my arguments denigrate into my opponent calling me names. Perhaps I should put a list of the names I've been called in this forum by your "fellow conservatives"?

Rush is successful for the simple reason that AM radio is dominated by conservatives, since all liberal media jumped to television, with a smaller based contingent on FM-based NPR, but it is television where they stand.

Melon

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Old 03-17-2002, 09:43 AM   #34
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Bubba, with all due respect, you are virtually the president of Rush Limbaugh's fan club, so I do not expect a balanced opinion on him from you.

Your comments on Michael Moore are sufficient enough to prove that you hate people on the opposite end of your ideological spectrum just as much as liberals hate Rush Limbaugh.

In case you don't know this (which this should be common sense), just as much as followers of Rush Limbaugh probably don't agree with everything he says, not everyone who follows Michael Moore follows everything he says.

The likely moral one can derive from Moore's 9/11 monologues, which, I must remind you, I have criticized myself, was that some of the actions of previous administrations led up to the climate that created 9/11. Even Dubya gave the Taliban $45 million to fight the "War on Drugs" in May 2001. Now don't tell me that the Taliban actually used all that money to fight drugs?

I think that the climate has finally changed within the Republican Party that I think we won't be propping up shaky dictatorships with atrocious human rights records just because they are "anti-communist," but it is funny that it took an event like 9/11 to force Republicans to look at this ultimately liberal idea of setting up responsible governments that actually serve more than just the U.S.'s business interests, no matter how oppressive they are to their own people. The new Afghanistan will certainly be the test as to if this is true or not.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 03-17-2002, 11:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
In a reaction that was only surprising at the time, many Forum members praised Moore for speaking "the truth" about Big, Bad, Evil America.
my memory isn't that great and since I know nothing about Moore I don't really have an opinion on him (I think I never posted in any thread about Moore myself), but I don't think people were praising him back then
some people did appreciate it that he at least recognized that US foreign policies in the middle east over the years contributed to the hatred that certain groups over there feel re. the US

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Old 03-17-2002, 12:49 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Salome:
some people did appreciate it that he at least recognized that US foreign policies in the middle east over the years contributed to the hatred that certain groups over there feel re. the US


I think almost everyone agrees to this fact, but I also would make the statement that an even larger contributor to the outright hatred and the factor spawning such attacks 'On Our Soil' is just pure jealousy over our Country, what it stands for, in fact.. Jealousy over Western Civilization and all it represents which America is the Poster Boy For.

Not changing the push of this thread...,
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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-17-2002).]
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Old 03-17-2002, 12:56 PM   #37
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Melon:

You're ducking the issue.

Certainly, you can point out the names that you've been called, and I just as easily remind you of certain things you've said about conservatives in general, conservative Christians, and me specifically.

Certainly, I'm not unbiased about Rush Limbaugh, but I also defend my claims well beyond any baises. If you want talk about unbalanced opinions, I could remind you about your tendency to link President Bush with dictators of the last century.

The fact remains, calling someone a NAZI is a serious, serious accusation. Other names aside, you should have the cajones to either condemn the accusation or defend it.
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Old 03-17-2002, 01:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
If you want talk about unbalanced opinions, I could remind you about your tendency to link President Bush with dictators of the last century.

Don't forget his age old Joke of calling Bush a 'Monkey'.. oh.. excuse me ... 'Trained Chimp'... (In regards to his Implementation of various policies.. Not mention his latest a thread over or so).

Hahaha.. (Insert Smiley with 'Shit Eating Grin' Here).. I think I saw Z Edge use it to perfection somewheres else.. it's the Green faced one...

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Old 03-17-2002, 01:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
my memory isn't that great and since I know nothing about Moore I don't really have an opinion on him (I think I never posted in any thread about Moore myself), but I don't think people were praising him back then
some people did appreciate it that he at least recognized that US foreign policies in the middle east over the years contributed to the hatred that certain groups over there feel re. the US
I agree with Lemonite on this one, but I also would like to add the following observation:

Cops are often hated by criminals because they enforce the law - often to the point that criminals try to exact revenge by killing the law enforcement officials that arrested them to begin with. Does that mean the cops should re-examine their duties, and maybe apolgize for arresting the criminals to begin with? No, certainly not. The reason is this: the cops ARE pissing off the criminals, but they're doing the right thing in the process.

Our foreign policy has upset a couple thugs who've decided to try to kill as many of us as possible. But until one can demonstrate that the policy was WRONG, the fact the we upset the thugs means nothing.

My disagreement with Moore is that he thinks our foreign policy - which includes defending the only democratic government in the Mideast AND protecting Muslims in Somalia and the fomer Yugoslavia - is wrong to begin with, assuming he's considered the issue with that level of logic.

More likely, he's going on this assumption:

* The U.S. does X.
* Somebody else gets mad about it.
* X MUST THEN BE WRONG, and the U.S. should immediately apologize, pull out, and pull up the drawbridge.

From what I've read, Moore strikes me as a guy who hates America regardless of what it does, who would call us "heartless" for doing nothing abroad and "imperialists" for trying to help.

For THIS reason, I think he's an idiot (gasp!), anti-American (SHOCK!), and a Judas to the system of free speech and free enterprise that allows him to say such trash AND make a good deal of money because of it.
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Old 03-17-2002, 01:34 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
My disagreement with Moore is that he thinks our foreign policy - which includes defending the only democratic government in the Mideast AND protecting Muslims in Somalia and the fomer Yugoslavia - is wrong to begin with, assuming he's considered the issue with that level of logic.
There used to be another democratic government in the Middle East a long time ago. The Eisenhower administration's CIA brought down a popular representative government in Iran, in 1953, because Mosaddeq, the prime minister, wanted to nationalise Iran's oil. America installed, nurtured, cradled, and propped the Shah for the next 25 years no matter how dictatorial and oppressive he became. This behavior, of course, led to the bloody Islamic revolution in Iran.

Lest we also forget where the whole "jihad" term resurrected. "Jihad" as political holy war had been a dead concept in Islam for centuries. When a few crackpots in Pakistan and Afganistan started talking about a holy war against the Soviet imperialists, the US encouraged and funded this movement (the mujahideen [sp?]) to attack the Soviet Union. Osama bin Laden was our ally, spending his own money and organizing people on the ground, as well as bringing them from all parts of the Islamic world. What do you think this created? Al-Qaeda.

Of course, America neither provoked nor deserved 9/11, but if we are ever to, once and for all, end the cycle of terrorism, we need to confront the truth and learn from our mistakes. If anything, the lesson is not to ally ourselves with fanatics or people of questionable allegiances just because, at that very moment, we think they serve our interests. On the contrary, they may have an agenda all their own, as we have come to see.

I'm hoping that, in our quest to end terrorism and Al-Qaeda, we won't foster a new enemy, just like in our former war against communism and the Soviet Union.

Melon

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